SA dagger real or parts?

[ITALIANWARFRONT]

Is this an original SA dagger with repro blade?

Thank you for the help

Giorgio

[ITALIANWARFRONT]

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[Colorado]

Hi Giorgio - I am not loving it. Looks like a built from scratch fake.

Might have some original parts in there somewhere.

[Don Prince]

Hi Giorgio,

The dagger and scabbard fit is bad, and the Motto etching looks too light and poorly defined. I would not advise anyone to invest in this dagger.

Regards,
Don_

[ITALIANWARFRONT]

Hi Giorgio,

The dagger and scabbard fit is bad, and the Motto etching looks too light and poorly defined. I would not advise anyone to invest in this dagger.

Regards,
Don_

OK thank you, what about wood handle and insignia on it?

[juoneen]

Its been monkeyed with....handle now forced fit, and boogered up the cap nut by using the wrong tool. Insignia likely replaced in wood.......

[Ron Weinand]

Full repro. Crossguards too thick, poor crossguard to scabbard throat fit, photo etched blade. Definately a full reproduction IMO.

[777]

Gentlemen, you may be surprised, but I say the dagger is OK. It is different than the vast majority of RZM daggers, but it is HELBIG. They all do have such low quality etch and the crossguards (yes, thicker) are made of cast iron. The only thing I dont like is the scabard throat thickness at one side (but who knows if the scabbard is original to the dagger). But as I said, this dagger is an original piece, I've handled several 7/73's (all of them NSKK, so I'm suspicious about that brown scabbard) and never wanted to keep one, just because the poor etching (however cast iron crossguards are superior to zinc).
Helbig daggers occasionaly show up at dealers websites, showing the same features (thick crossguards, crappy etching). Check also the p.175 of Wittmann Vol.4, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Ron Weinand]

There were MANY fake Helbig RZM Daggers made in the late 1950s and early 1960s and imported by Atwood. Some were RZM marked Rohm inscription SAs and all were of this type. After all this time, aging makes one think they could have been late war types, but I say they were all bad.

[777]

OK, so how can you tell the difference between an original and fake RZM Helbig then? Is the dagger in Witty's book one of the Atwood imports? Seems like Helbig firm had always problems with etching or generally speaking placing their logos at blades. Let's look at their LW swords, the logo is really poorly executed. I'm not going to make the discussed dagger my Alamo, because I can't say much about the collector scene in the 50's or 60's, but knowing these daggers coming from different sources, looking very real and seeing them offered by a big boys/reputable dealers I'm just far from giving instantly a red flag.

[tranchant]

sa

hello
for me the blade is a poor fake , the guards also, the giff is strange, i am not sure for the other parts, the eagle and sa motto are originals, for the rest this is difficult without dissasembled photos,the SA daggers are commun, no PUT MONEY IN THIS DAGGER!
best regards
patrick