SA dagger real or parts?

[DR DOLCH]

There were MANY fake Helbig RZM Daggers made in the late 1950s and early 1960s and imported by Atwood. Some were RZM marked Rohm inscription SAs and all were of this type. After all this time, aging makes one think they could have been late war types, but I say they were all bad.

I agree with Ron on HELL_BIG daggers,I can't stand them.I am also amazed that many dealers sell them as originals and people buy them as high dollar anomalies. Just look at them,awful and obvious.

[Ron Weinand]

Even the lower scabbard fitting is not correct in that it is too large for the scabbard body and has a gap at the top. I am not sure Helbig EVER made an RZM SA or SS in the period as they mainly made Luftwaffe Daggers and Swords.

[777]

I am not sure Helbig EVER made an RZM SA or SS in the period as they mainly made Luftwaffe Daggers and Swords.

What was the purpose of giving the RZM code 7/73 for Helbig then? As we know number 7 means "edged weapons" and it's not for LW daggers and swords.

Check please the same crossguards and etching on other Helbig, and see what Bill Shea has to say about it:
http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Edged/e466.htm

Comments welcome

BTW. The SA scabbard doesn't belong to the dageer IMHO.

[DR DOLCH]

With all the dagger cottage industry in Germany at the time.They must have sent all the flunkys to Helbig to work. I could understand if one item of the dagger was low quality but noooooooooooo! it's got to be every aspect of it.Why are'nt there other low quality dagger makers,not one aspect but completely as Helbig is ?

[777]

Let's consider it The Biggest Mystery of The Third Reich

[lakesidetrader]

David Malsh also had similar quality issues with etching. Both makers were Steinbach producers.

[Ron Weinand]

Believe what you want, but I KNOW Atwood imported POST WAR RZM Helbig SAs and SSs. BTW, I believe Helbig made HJ Knives, so the award of the RZM number.

[DR DOLCH]

David Malsh also had similar quality issues with etching. Both makers were Steinbach producers.

Etching is one thing but the whole dagger ?

[DR DOLCH]

David Malsh also had similar quality issues with etching. Both makers were Steinbach producers.

Etching is one thing but the whole dagger ? The biggest mystery to me is I am not sure of the RZM number without researching it.It is like the 120/34 that faces the opposite direction on the blade.Very high quality dagger but considered bad by most because the RZM number goes the wrong way,not by me.Go figure.

[kirk]

I would not want this dagger.

[Frogprince]

What was the purpose of giving the RZM code 7/73 for Helbig then? As we know number 7 means "edged weapons" and it's not for LW daggers and swords.

Check please the same crossguards and etching on other Helbig, and see what Bill Shea has to say about it:
http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Edged/e466.htm

Comments welcome

BTW. The SA scabbard doesn't belong to the dageer IMHO.

To borrow an expression: “I don’t have a dog in this fight”. And when I looked at the Bill Shea dagger cited, I saw some other things not related to the etching (although when I did a side by side especially of the RZM markings I found the comparisons 'interesting').

The first was that there is what looks like fairly large gaps between the blade edges and the crossguard. And when I did an enlargement of that, I am going to guess that I could insert at least 4 or 5 (more?) index cards into that gap on one side, and perhaps 3 or 4 index cards into the gap on the other side. And the grip eagle which looks brand new (as does the grip in that area). It has less detail than the one first posted here - so why are the details partially obliterated?

After looking at these two, I (personally) will never have an RZM 7/73 that looks like either of them. FP