Naval sword

[mustang]

ive seen several with O.836 all modern made for export adapted to sell as ww2 ( youd think theyd change the numbers on a few but no ) , and the scabbard drag waffenamt is incorrect

[damasco]

I forgot to mention.... There are Great books out on Navy swords and daggers for sale on the Mr. Johnson, Mr. Wittmann websites,This might help in your collecting... Also a good book that was 1st printed in German (Swords of the German Navy) a must have And also a German book on Daggers of the German Navy.

[Frogprince]

The attempt at a Kriegsmarine acceptance stamp is just that, an attempt, and IMO not very well done. I also actually have a 2001 dated image with the “O. 836” supposed Naval property stamp - along with a poor condition sword knot attached in an apparent effort to complete the deception. So maybe they are still in production? And books can be a tremendous asset in building the knowledge needed to survive in an area filled with many efforts to defraud the unwary. With the minor admonition from my perspective, that some books are better than others. FP

[DTS]

I still say "wow," in both a positive and negative sense...

[Stu W]

This type of sword, with the same Ostsee property marking of O. 836, has appeared recently in western Canada. It would be nice to know the source.

Regards,
Stu

[damasco]

Well here is another one of these crap Navy swords!! On e-bay same markings (matching) for $800.00 + so if you guys want one here it is!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/SCARCE-1920-GERM...#ht_6845wt_934 What a CON as I said they can be bought as repros for 130.00 pounds in England

[Frogprince]

This type of sword, with the same Ostsee property marking of O. 836, has appeared recently in western Canada. It would be nice to know the source.

Regards,
Stu

Stu, While ‘damasco’ (James) has just posted a link to another current seller of the plain versions of these swords, complete with a video, etc. etc. I suspect that possibly Spain(?) could have been the origin of some of the “O. 836” marked ones. Or maybe India - who knows? If he wanted to - I would imagine that this seller of the swords (legitimately, as copies) could tell us where it is that he buys the ones that he sells. Here again is the link that was posted of the UK source:

http://www.medieval-arms.co.uk/ma/ac...1-and-ww2.html

Personally, I’m still of the opinion that the currently “enhanced” (artificial Damascus and conventionally etched) versions are coming out of Germany. As many of the other postwar creations/altered originals seem to have originated from:

http://70.87.163.50/forums/showthread.php?t=513247

With the thread posted here showing that there can be multiple sources. And that some of the postwar fakes can be of of very good quality:

http://forum.germandaggers.com/ubbth...=175055&page=1

With the thread below just being an added bonus. Because it involves some collectors who used their own independent powers of observation as to what looks right, and what does not. And not being afraid to voice their opinions.

http://70.87.163.50/forums/showthread.php?t=516297

FP

[Stu W]

Hi FP,

Thanks for the info and links. I'll have a look at them ASAP.

Regards,
Stu

[Frogprince]

Collector Alert

Stu,

While some collectors seem to have their heads in the clouds (or someplace else), I was encouraged by your interest in where some of these fakes might be coming from.

This IMO is a MUST READ to add to your list of sites to visit.

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...pany/133530/on

"Windlass acquires Spanish company Press Trust of India / Dehra Dun April 29, 2011, 17:06 IST

Windlass Steelcrafts has acquired Marto, a leading European company in Spain that manufactures decorative historical swords, a company official said today. The total net worth of Marto is believed to be around Rs 150 crore. The acquisition will also include Marto's two sister companies -- Bermejo, which manufactures military dress swords for many international governments and Midas, a high-end jewellery manufacturer catering to the world's gift market. "We have signed the acquisition papers and now own the Marto Group of Companies of Toledo in Spain, plus its 150 years' old military sword manufacturer company Bermejo. All this has been bought through Atlanta Cutlery Corporation Inc. of the USA at an undisclosed sum," said Sudhir K Windlass, the President of the Windlass Group of Companies.

With this acquisition, Windlass becomes the largest swordmaker in the world with the biggest market share. It now has its manufacturing facilities at Dehradun in India, Conyers Atlanta in the US and Toledo in Spain, he said. Founded in 1961 at Toledo in Spain, Marto brings to life the original art of the sword in the world. The acquisition will give Windlass the new tag of world leader in the sector, Windlass said. Established in 1943, the group has come a long way from historical weapons to diversify into a wide-ranging sectors like clothings, pharmaceuticals, real estate and hotel businesses.

Through some key partnerships, Windlass started exporting to the US and Western European nations in 1979 and has since outfitted many armies of the world, provided props to the biggest Hollywood productions like Gladiator, The Lord of The Rings, Troy and The Mummy Returns and manufactured some amazing licenced replicas of many top collectible items.


http://www.business-standard.com/ind...h-firm/433923/

Hollywood prop supplier Windlass acquires Spanish firm Shishir Prashant / Dehradun April 29, 2011, 0:45 IST

After coming into prominence for supplying battle props to Hollywood productions, Windlass Steelcrafts, a division of the Windlass Group of companies, on Thursday announced the acquisition of Marto of Spain, a leading European manufacturer of decorative historical swords, for an undisclosed sum. The acquisition will also include Marto’s two sister companies — Bermejo, which manufactures military dress swords for many international governments and Midas, a high-quality jewellery manufacturer catering to the world’s gift market. Marto was founded in 1961 in Toledo, Spain. “We are very excited about this opportunity to complement Windlass Steelcrafts’ network of products and services with those of Marto. We feel that this merger is the perfect synergy of companies, at the perfect time,” said Sudhir K Windlass, president of the Windlass Group after signing the deal in Spain.

With the addition of Marto and its subsequent companies, Windlass Steelcrafts will become a dominant player in the historical swords-making industry of the world. “Together, the companies will not only have the widest range of state-of-the-art technologies ever available but will also now have the largest distribution arm throughout the world for their goods and services,” Windlass said.Established in 1943, Windlass Group has diversified into sectors like historical weapons, clothing, pharmaceuticals, real estate and hotels. Through some key partnerships, Windlass started exporting to the US and western European nations in 1979 and has since outfitted many armies of the world, provided props to big Hollywood productions such as Gladiator, The Lord of The Rings, Troy and The Mummy Returns and has manufactured some amazing licensed replicas for many top collectible companies."

And if we then add in the talents of those Germans (or whomever). Are taking period originals to add etching, artificial Damascus, re-etching genuine period Damascus, or otherwise altering period originals to add to the mix - but with newly manufactured blades. You can see why fakes have become a major problem in collecting. Something which has been going on for decades, and has scammed not only collectors, but also a number of dealers.

With Best Regards, FP

[PzV]

thanks for this large amount of information. Unfortunately the fakers are out there wherever there is money to be had. Needless to say, I will be more cautious in the future!