German bayonet help

[Richie B]

Thanks for the great photos.

I don't think it's a "pioneer" since those are usually sawbacks?

Robert

Robert

A quote from Tony Carter's book on the subject ...

"Although Prussia, Saxony and even Bavaria had adopted heavy saw backed blades for their Pioneer Battalions, the Kingdom of Wurttemburg preferred a broad double edged blade which was unique to their state"

From studying his description, I think the square ends to the fullers indicates a first type made using the blade from the earlier M1857 Pioneerfaschinenmesser.

The marking is for the 13th Wurttembergisches Pioneer-Battalion Nr. 13. 4th Ersatz Company. Weapon 16.

Regards

Richie

[christhurston]

There is, I'm sure, no doubt at all about Roberts bayonet, and I'm also sure that the vendor of the piece will have received his $100 pretty damn quick.

As Richie has said not an easy thing to value, but I have noticed that one of the very well known militaria dealers here in the UK has a 98/02 for which he's asking £2000!!!!

Intended, I think, to replace the various types of pionierfaschinenmesser then in use, they are nowhere near as rare as Robert's piece has got to be. It has got a better blade as well, the scabbard leather is easily replaced, and never mind the release button.

Regards Chris.

[helmetbuyers]

Thanks guys for the help.

I did buy the bayonet... and it was shipped this morning.

I should receive it Saturday and will post photos.

thanks again... Robert

[helmetbuyers]

I received the bayonet today. here are some more photos.

it appears to have had other unit markings on the scabbard... but were crossed out?

Robert

[helmetbuyers]

blade is quite nice

[helmetbuyers]

22

[helmetbuyers]

15

[Ohlau]

Rare bird

[christhurston]

Hi Robert,
Congratulations are in order, methinks, and I'm sure that this piece is one of those once in a lifetime things that most collectors only dream about!!!

The scabbard doesn't look too bad at all, a little repair work is called for, but having the original marked scabbard with the piece is a brilliant bonus point.

Some measurements would be necessary but it wouldn't surprise me if you will be able to replace the leaf spring and button arrangement with period parts from another bayonet.

Regards Chris.

[christhurston]

I didn't for one second imagine that I would feel the need to read up on the Wurttemberg M1871 pioneer bayonet but Roberts lucky find has stirred my interest.

It seems that most surviving examples, like this one, bear the marks of Wurttembergisches Pionier-Bataillon Nr 13, and they had a very short life, introduced in 1872 and discarded on the 12th of December 1875.

They were replaced by the standard M1871 Prussian sawback, and although these pioneer bayonets did not all have the same blades, the brass hilts on all of the 1871 models appear identical, so a replacement leaf spring and button should be fairly easy to locate.

The last Anthony Carter price guide that I have for 1996/97 lists the Wurttemberg M1871 Pioneer Bayonet as extremely rare with very few ever appearing on the market. He gives £600 as a guide price, the 98/02 sawback in the same list is £450+, and my personal favourite the service issue kS98 short sawback was £125, times have certainly changed!!!!

Regards Chris.

[helmetbuyers]

I didn't for one second imagine that I would feel the need to read up on the Wurttemberg M1871 pioneer bayonet but Roberts lucky find has stirred my interest.

It seems that most surviving examples, like this one, bear the marks of Wurttembergisches Pionier-Bataillon Nr 13, and they had a very short life, introduced in 1872 and discarded on the 12th of December 1875.

They were replaced by the standard M1871 Prussian sawback, and although these pioneer bayonets did not all have the same blades, the brass hilts on all of the 1871 models appear identical, so a replacement leaf spring and button should be fairly easy to locate.

The last Anthony Carter price guide that I have for 1996/97 lists the Wurttemberg M1871 Pioneer Bayonet as extremely rare with very few ever appearing on the market. He gives £600 as a guide price, the 98/02 sawback in the same list is £450+, and my personal favourite the service issue kS98 short sawback was £125, times have certainly changed!!!!

Regards Chris.

Thanks Chris for the awesome help.

This bayonet was worth about $900 back in 1996/97?

At first... I thought this was a common French yataghan bayonet till I saw the German markings.

Best wishes... Robert

[christhurston]

Hi Robert,
It's been a real treat to see the images of your bayonet, and I'm really glad if I've managed to help you a little with it.

Anthony Carter published his price guides every few years, and his untimely death in 2002 makes his 96/97 edition his last and most recent. It's fairly safe, I think, to multiply most of his suggested values then by a factor of 4 in todays market.

I wish you well with your bayonet, a little TLC would make it the real pride of absolutely anyones collection.

Regards Chris.