opininions neededmon Zeitler Luft

[cogwheel]

Prior to the Anschluss Zeitler was the main supplier of the Austrian Air Force daggers, maybe the only one. I was under the inpression that Zeitler was the actual maker rather than just the distributor. At least according to Robert Berger in his book 'World of Dress Daggers' in which he identifies Zeitler as the maker of Austrian AF daggers. The blades were marked 'Zeitler' over 'WIEN VIII'.

[Billy G]

I agree with Cogwheel. Although the Zeitler mark resembles a distributor's marking in it's plain appearance, Fisher's maker mark book also lists Zeitler as a manufacturer. The mark itself is not common by any means, I've seen 1 or 2 Heer daggers, I think a Landzoll & now this Luft. On a rare occasion a fire bayonet as well. Fortunately I was able to snag one of those

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Cogwheel and Bill.
I have not seen the maker's mark myself, but will do so at the end of next week or the beginning of the following week and will post a pic of it on this thread then. I have seen reference to Zeitler Lufts on another forum, but they do not seem to be common. Wittman does not list him as a maker of Lufts, but states that his list is not complete.
Thanks,
Peter.

[JohnZ]

Nolan:

Pre Anschluss, Zeitler made daggers for the Austrian armed forces. They were assigned an RZM number by the Nazis (RZM 7/104) and are listed in Fisher as makers of SAs, HJs, Heers, Luft1s and bayonets.

I have in my Luft2 collection a Zeitler mark (2 lines, Zeitler over Wien).

Sounds more like a manufacturer with maker marks than a distributor in this case.

John

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks John.
I now have some more pics of this dagger, including one of the maker's mark, which I think resembles yours, but only the first few letters of the second word are readable.I have no experience with Lufts, but I must say that I am extremely concerned about this one's handle, since it is cream in colour rather than white and, I seem to detect a kind of seam mark down each side. There are some slight chips in it. The belt clip is marked DRGM and with a small symbol. The symbol is found smaller in size on one of the buckles, the other is unmarked.
The item came in a box which seems to suggest that it was posted back from Germany by a soldier after the war.
I attach a number of pictures and would be grateful for any opinions.
Thanks,
Peter.

[peterwyndavies]

Some more pics showing the other side of the handle.

[peterwyndavies]

Some more pics of the belt clip and buckle.

[peterwyndavies]

Some more pics showing the maker's mark and a view of the underside of the crossguard which is quite loose.

[peterwyndavies]

Finally a picture of the box it was sold with, and which it was posted back in.

[777]

To me this dagger looks pretty fine, I don't see any problems here. Cream colour? So what? Any colour from white to deep red orange is acceptable (not to mention the black handled "funeral" Klaas). Grips of 2nd LW were made from different materials and in different ways. This one looks like "plastic over wood" (but I can't be 100% sure without seeing the dagger disassembled) and I've seen such looking grips before (having exactly the same cream colour).
IMHO, if Zeitler company wasn't making LW dagggers (actually noone made them in 100% - many parts were obtained from subcontractors), then they were probably assembling them together from ready made parts and/or distributing them amongst Austrian Air Force officers incorporated into Luftwaffe. They couldn't forget to mark their product with company stamp, of course (much easier than acid etching and OK to use on flat surface).

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks 777, I am totally inexperienced with Lufts and thought that the apparent "seam" marks down each side looked suspicious.
Thanks,
Peter.