Wiesbaden police school bayonet

[Claude Bertin]

Here are a few photo's of a Bayonet and Scabbard small town in WI. It has an 29 marked scabbard. The blade is marked with E.P.& S. and engraved on both sides(Zur Erinnerung an die Ausbildungzeit 1938-1939 and Schutz-polizei -Hundertschaft. Wiesbaden-Biebrich)as well as a police Eagle on the pommel. Please let me know what you think. Any information would be appeciated.
thanks in advance.
Claude

[Claude Bertin]

an other,

[SCHUPO]

Claude,

The bayonet looks like similar fakes that came out of Germany in the 1980s. They had this same commemorative etching and poorly fitting new stag grips as this bayonet. They seem to have been made up of a mix of original and newly made parts and I recall seeing them for sale in a militaria shop in Nürnburg in the late 80s along with fake WSP daggers and Luftwaffe Gen officer and Diplomatic swords.

[kirk]

I would not want this bayonet.

[Billy G]

Claude,

As usual, Schupo has hit the nail on the head. I've seen these pieces with the same etch occasionally for years now. Sorry to say this is a not a period piece & I'd suggest you get your money back if you can.

[Skipper Greenwade]

It really is a pity, but I wince everytime I see a thread with "engraved bayonet" in the title. Unless the etch is one of the recognized, standard remembrance mottoes offered by the larger manufacturers, tread very carefully.

I'm not saying the others don't exist, just that they are exceedingly rare and seem to be a favorite target of those who want to separate you from your $$$

Best,
Skip

[Hafke77]

Hello,
I know this thread has not been referred to in quite some time, but I have come across am interesting example of an older version (long blade) police bayonet with this etching and I am curious if anyone has seen any like this. In reference to the pictures which started this thread, they are obviously of a reproduction. I know the third Reich police bayonets were cut down from the earlier versions with the clam shell, when they were cut down, the blades were shortened leaving the blood run, running to the end of the dagger, unlike the thread starter where it has a cross cut at the end of the blood run. I am attaching a few pictures which have interested me, anyone who has input on this please provide!
Thanks

[Serge M.]

Just.....Horrible.

[Hafke77]

Hello Wags,
Would you mind explaining a little more please.
Thank you!
-Robert

[Schlange]

Luneschloss Solingen logo is too blurry.


Schlange

http://www.mojalbum.com/schlange88/albumi

[JohnZ]

I had hopes for this one until I saw the maker mark.

John

[Hafke77]

Hello John and Schlang,

So due to the makers mark being too blurry, this is all the reason to consider it a reproduction? Possibility my lighting had something to do with it, I will try and obtain a better picture. I understand it is definitely a red flag, but are there other clues that you can point out to me?
Thanks!
-Robert

[Serge M.]

Hello Wags,
Would you mind explaining a little more please.
Thank you!
-Robert

As Schlange and John pointed out: the soft Luneschloss makers logo.
I don't like the grip fit to the crossguard, the grip insignia, or the melted look of the clamshell. The lack of detail is quite apparent. Compare:

[Hafke77]

Thank you Wags, I see the difference you are referring to, although I looked at one Thomas Whittman is selling that looks similar to mine in texture. I also noticed the design on the cross guard in your picture is different, again maybe just different manufacturer? Thank you for the image. I was hoping that maybe the fine detail was just worn off. I'm trying to figure this thing out, to me, the aging is there, the scabbard looks correct in age, there are no specific types of scratch marks, all wear marks are different, the pommel, cross guard and grip insignia are not magnetic. But seeing all these suggestions just sucks, so much for hoping for the best.
Thanks for the help none the less!
-Robert

[Billy G]

Hi Robert,


I will admit, I did a double take when I saw your posted bayonet. Reproductions of this style of bayonet have been around for many years & have gone through several generations that I have seen, getting better as time goes by. Many are able to be determined to be fake simply by the poor quality of the etch, as can be seen by the originally posted bayonet by Pack.

The etch on yours is significantly better IMHO & very similar to originals but sadly, I still believe it to be a parts piece made from some original parts cobbled together with some reproduction ones.


As mentioned, the PDL maker's mark is a bad sign on an etched blade. In this case, the mark itself is soft & looks quite odd. As was also mentioned, the clamshell has a somewhat melted appearance, also not a good thing considering these bayonets would have been private purchase items produced at great cost so the details would have been better. The grip emblem style is incorrect, while this style did exist late in the production period, this solid shield type did not appear on originals of this type.

There are a couple of other tidbits I'll keep to myself that distinguish your posted piece from a period produced one so as not to assist the fakers.