SS Scharnhorst sword and SS Unattributed sword

[daz181]

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[daz181]

Echo what George has to say.

One needs to be particularyly careful when it comes to SS style lionheads, silver hilters, etc. Anything alleging to be SS needs to be clearly examined. If set on an SS sword, like Geoge said, save up and buy a degen from someone reputable. We just recently saw a member with a degen that turned out to raise many significant issues when he tried to sell it. Tread very lightly on the area of SS. I've never been a big fan of some of these pieces. There have been a variety of lionhead sabers floating around with applied SS runes, enamled, pinned, attached, whatever, which were ultimately agreen upon to be bunk. Tread very lightly with this stuff. I havn't seen this particular saber you are referring to, but the description itself sets off bells. These are not for me. I'm aware of a few examples that are good, but overall, the stuff is WAY TOO sketchy.

Tom - Now that you have seen some detailed pictures of this sword, please feel free to tell me what about this sword is setting your alarm bells off.

cheers

d.

[daz181]

I believe that the cited book is possibly wrong again regarding this sword being a WKC #1013.

Here is the problem with this particular sword. It was marketed under several numbers by WKC depending upon slight variations. It was sold as a WKC #5 with a spray of laural leaves in the langet. It was also sold as a WKC #1024 with a gilt hilt and silver or gold eagle and swastika in the langet. The sword was also marketed as a WKC #1056 with a cast eagle and swastika in the langet. So, as you can see it existed under several different catalog numbers with slight variations. The sword is not shown in the WKC catalog as an SS sword with runes on the langet.

The WKC #1024 variation (also shown as a #1056 in Jack Angolia's book) had the Heer eagle and swastika separately riveted to the obverse langet. This meant that the device was set inside a recessed area exactly like the SS runes on the sword you are asking about. The recessed area was stippled on the Heer sword offered by WKC but is filled in with black enamel on the sword in question. Therefore, I believe that the sword in question is in fact a modified WKC #1024 that has also been silvered.

The first question I would ask is if this sword was made in this configuration by WKC during time of use, why is there no specific catalog number for it and why is it not listed in the catalog as an option? The second question I would ask is why would WKC not simply rivet the runes in place in the same manner they riveted the gold and silver eagles and swastikas in place? The third question I would ask is if they offered this sword in silver why not indicate it in the catalog since they indicate they can supply silver or gilt eagles?

I go on the three strikes and you are out theory when I buy expensive swords. The question you have to ask yourself is did this sword leave the WKC factory in this configuration or did someone simply set some runes and black enamel in the already recessed langet of this sword and then silver plate it after the war? Swordfish has mentioned his views on these swords and Wags has addressed your question concerning prior owners. I would fully agree with them. It is your money and you can spend it on whatever you care to. I would not buy either of these swords for my collection.


SCHUPO - if you have a copy of this book, take good look at page 306. It shows copy of the page from WKC catalogue showing model no.s 1013, 1014, 1015 and 1016..

Email Tom Wittmann, he might sell you copy of the catalogue..

[daz181]

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[daz181]

I agree that the standard issue degen is good place to start collecting SS sword, however these early swords are very rare and hard to find, it took me 10 years to get hold of one of these.

I was lucky enough to purchase this sword from Barry Brown via Stewart Wilson at Old Brigade, when Barry was selling some of his collection to fund the purchase of Sepp Dietrich Honor sword. If only i could win the lottery...

d.

[daz181]

I have invited all the 'experts' who have expressed concerns over the authenticity of this sword to re-enter the discussion and give us all the benefit of their 'knowledge'. Strangley one 'expert' has emailed me to tell me that his 'knowledge' is limited(??) and the others have not responded at all. Which i find surprising as they have all been viewihg this thread tonight (good old 'Currently Active Users Viewing' gave them away).

d.

[DAMAST]

Not commenting on this sword or Barry Brown , but there is some of crap in advanced collections (and I personally have seen it). I can only comment on damascus items... I quite posting on another fourm because of (EXPERTS) who are long winded and at the same time really say nothing. And then the kicker is they pass judgement on items and than you find out there 14 years old or have been collecting the stuff for only a few years. New collectors are great but ................. Regards: James Brown P.S. I sure like that page from the WKC catalog!!

[daz181]

Well done to all the collectors who have emailed me and correctly idenitifed the so called expert, who knows f**k all on the subject of early SS swords.

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