Need help on Police Sword

[pvluger]

I agree with you 100% Swordfish, without a portapee "Police officer degen" is the only term applicable. Relation to the SS, a big yes.

If it had an SS portapee, then it would be (as Wittman calls it anyway) an SS-Police Degen.

[daggers]

@SwordFish and pvluger, take a look into the book "Waffentechnischer Leitfaden für die Odnungs-Polizei" by K.Fischer (Oberstleutnant der Schutzpolizei and SS-Obersturmbannführer, Waffen Inspizient, Hauptamt Ordnungspolizei) published 1940, wherin the chapter "Die blanken Waffen der Polizei", on pg. 298 both Degen (Unterführerdegen and Führerdegen) are clearly titled "Die SS-Polizeidegen".

[pvluger]

Thanks Daggers, will do!

I am not saying that the SS-Police Degen doesn't exist, it does, and has ans SS portapee on it.

-There is the NCO version with SS NCO portaee, and SS Police Officer grade with SS Officer portapee. These two types are for police who hold rank within the SS. They also had runes sewn on their tunics below the pocket. If they met the requirements, they were entitled to wear the coveted standard SS Officer Degen.

Police who did not hold rank did not use the SS portapee. This is the sword we have here. So this is where I agree with Swordfish and the term "SS-Police Degen" is shortened to "Police Degen". Wittmann does this in his book as well, calling the degen a "Police Degen" and not an "SS-police Degen" when the portapee was not present. In addition, Fire fightingers were allowed this exact same sword, making the whole thing much more complicated.


Swordfish and I were also in agreement based on factual evidence that the SS supervised production of this sword whether it belonged to a policeman with dual membership in the SS or not.

[SwordFish]

To re-open this thread, I interesting noticed a police officer degen that Wittman is sellinig on his site that is listed as "SS Police Officer Degen". According to Wittman, the bearer, indeed had dual membership in both organizations. So, according to Wittman, certain sabers, I guess with this type of provinance can be referred to as SS police degens. However, if you search the rest of his listings in the police/SS saber degen section, you'll notice that many of the standard police officer degens are stamped with the sigrune mark on the scabbard throat and under the crossguard as an "acceptance" stamp. Like we discussed earlier in the thread, the SS ultimatley exerted total control of the police forces and indeed proof certain items with the acceptance stamp (sigrunes marking).

I just want to reiterate, that even though, according to Wittman, certain degens can be categorized as SS police degens, a saber with the sigrune stamp does not imply dual membership in both organizations.

I must say, this thread has been informative and has forced me to research this topic. Since I generally collect TR/Weimar Heer sabers, my knowledge in the degen arena is somewhat limited.

Keep the faith and happpy hunting my friends.

PS- Did you all catch the recent news about Marilyn Manson swindling money from his band to fund his Thrid Reich collection?

[pvluger]

What! Marilyn Manson!!


Yes, what you say is true. The sig rune proof has nothing to do with any dual membership, in which I made that mistake. I was a uninformed my self on such a minute detail since I mostly researched daggers. Had to crack open the books.

This was a very good thread..

[SwordFish]

Daggers- I did not see your the information you had referenced earlier in the thread. Right on. Peroid literature is key.

PV- Manson, it's classic. There is a thread on GDC about it. Take care,
T