Austrian Hitler Youth Dagger "Blut und Ehre" Zeitler

[Ostmaerker]

In a rediculous bad book (Bichlmaier/Hartung) there is such a dagger shown on page 66/67 and it is named "knive of the austrian and Sudetengerman HJ/DJ.

Ostmaerker

[AndyB]

There is always a problem with similar pieces, i assume You probably dont have period photos of Slovak State, and there are not any HJ knives on DJ community reported on period photos, and when used so mostly normal HJ knifes only by headers of the troops,the emlem could be not examined correctly.Soldiers of german native used a german swastika on uniform.
-very important information, i personally dont known about any mentioned in period 1945-60 or literature, post that period existed many fakes already.There exist czech and slovak books about used daggers of period 1939-45 even with prototypes of Consortium of Protektorat and various HG daggers version, but no one similar DJ knifes, published already 90ies of 20century.
- firstly the geometry of the emblem is wrong, You should find on web original DJ period emblems
-secondly the emblem is glued into space, which i assume would be incorect
-the condition of blade where is etched TM of Zeitler is not polished, there exist many fakes of Zeitler etches, each have different fonts and letters why do You believe a maker well known since 18xx would use 5 different etches in 4 years 1939-43.
- for this maker is well known maker stamp which could be seen of austrian prewar Flyer daggers and is identical to HJ knives that are confirmed.
-the condition of the leather haenger is not even typical for Zeitler the black paint is not old, the rivets are wrong size
-i added here other faked piece that occured on forum 2018, there was other font etched into better condition blade, interestingly the emblem is identical??
But believe what You will.

[Delano55]

Good evening,

like i mentioned before, the insignia is original and not glued, it is movable, what untouched hj-knifes should have. There are corrosion on the scubbard and signs of aging at the leather. The leather is also right, no problem with that. And: what means "typical" for an knife, for an Zeitler, that most of us have never seen, and furthermore for such an extraordinary knife like this? This knife is not typical. Maybe just the last Slovakian Zeitler existing? Hope not! And to the rivets: Look at the photo below from an identical Zeitler HJ-Knife, event with the same maker mark – big rivets. This is indeed a sign for a typical Zeitler. Everything fits. Or look here: http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com...h-knife-30583/

Assumed that Zeitler takes one of his "standard" Knifes and just modificated it for the slovakian youth. I think he had to do this shield cut-out by hand. So it looks like - handmade.

Maybe we can agree on that, that most of us have not seen this dagger before. And more: I wrote Mr. Wittmann, sending him 50 detailed pictures of this knife, who is really a well-known expert in rare daggers, to be really sure, and he wrote to me:

"Yes, quite rare knife here especially with the issue tags. Good luck with it!"

He is really nice, ready to help and we had a nice conversation. He helped me very much with this knife.

Scepticism is always good on such rare items, but sometimes it is really a gem.

Many thanks to all of you guys!

[Larry C]

Here is an example of an HJ knife by RZM M7/104 ZEITLER WIEN. Not a very common maker so not much to compare with.

http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com...h-knife-30583/

As far as the knife that started this post I will refrain from comment.

Steve

+ 1

[wilhelm Saris]

why is there a green RZM tag with an M7 code?
Green was for flags and such (Fahnen aller Art), according to the Mitteilungsblatt der RZM!
Just a question to learn.

[Saufaenger kid]

Delano

If you are happy with this knife then that should be enough, personally I do not like it as an original, it just hasn't got the look to me and I do not like the dealer you bought it from, he is so well known for selling strange and post war pieces that are always "Fundzustand", buy what you like and be happy with it.

Gary

[AndyB]

I believe a skill collector when looks at the details of blade now why is one side polished and other not, because of adding the etch .
Even by examining of scabbard is clear this is not a 80 years old item.
Sorry You could ask Wittmann even 10x times, he is not expert on Slovakian area items, he doesnt known how should the emblem of DJ looks like.
I already wrote You some points that You could look for. otherway when You are satisfied so no problem. I presented here similar piece with different blade rzm 7/104 etch that was saled 2 years ago. So i assume in next time will be arrive others.
You wrote You are from Austria, You should ask Your parents or grand parents, how returned the germans from Slovakia into Austria and Germany in 1945. This piece is untouched its speaks already with that condition unreal used before 80 years.
Here is clearly visible filed grates of cast of handle on crossguard. There exist minimum 5 other faked TM of Zeitler on various german daggers.

[Nische]

Here’s a suggestion, throw it on estand for $1,000. Then lower price every three days by $100. When it gets to a $100, you’ll have your answer.

Maybe Mr. Wittmann will buy it from you?

The forum has allowed me to build a respectable collection over the years. Moderators and members have saved me countless times from items that were not period made.