Austrian Hitler Youth Dagger "Blut und Ehre" Zeitler

[Delano55]

Hello,

i need your help for this dagger. I just have no clue what to say about it. It partly looks really good. Otherwise there are some elements, that make me curious.

What is your opinion?


Best regards

Delano

[AndyB]

Already some months years ago mentioned here in forum, i assume the Zeitler etch trade mark is strange, the emblem should be of slovakian german natives Karpatendeutsche - Deutsche Jugend organised as youth organisation in Deutsche Partei in period 1939-45. real pieces are extremely rare, i assume many fakes exist. b.r.Andy

[Br. James]

I've never seen an Austrian HJ Field Knife before, and this piece appears to me to to be too new to be from the period. The leather is certainly fresh-looking, especially for a piece bearing the "Blood and Honor" blade inscription which was used in the mid-1930s on German HJ Knives. That said, the RZM license #M7 / 104 was held by the firm of Ludwig Zeitler of Vienna.

Br. James

[AndyB]

https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...d.php?t=979490
should be looked for period HJ of Zeitler in forum and compare the marking

[Delano55]

The knife doesnt not look really bad and i know some Zeitler Sa Daggers in this condition.... dont know what to do....

[Delano55]

i bought this peace, because i´ve got a good feeling with this. i will make better pictures as soon as i got him.

i know a sa dagger from zeitler in germany, this peace was also double marked and in mint condition. like you said, they are extremely rare, especially for slovakian youth.

[tranchant]

hj

hello
for my opinion no good! i know this style photos send by a know faker!! save your money for a sure item!
best regards
patrick

[Delano55]

hello patrick,

i bought this from a known german dealer and i can give him back the dagger within a month. No problem.

Lets give him a try with much more detailed pics. And we should not forget, that this is one of the three austrian producers and they make things a little bit different in austria. And, this is a dagger that is extremely rare and maybe nobody ever see one like this. So it will be kind of hard to find another peace. I just know this daggers from books.

Looking on the space between ricasso and motto and on the top of the scubbard, it has a very good chance in my opinion. The scubbard seems to be a typical Zeitler, with this run in sharp line. Moreover it would be more suspicious, when it would be a german producer, but an austrian maker fits very well, historically seen. Even the dark etching fits well with this kind of mint condition.

I looking forward for the delivery!


Thanks and best regards

Delano

[AndyB]

There are many problems, firstly i doubt Zeitler made real a etched RZM patterns, secondly the blade rohling is very rough on the etched side, the emblem of DJ is not extra correct, and is mostly glued into grip, You will see it when not movable when holding in hand, the handle material doesnt look like zinc legierung more like a brass cast nickeled. Personally doubt that slovakian germans were delivered per RZM proofed contract , same as there exist in 2018 a piece with old crossed hammers in shield and similar RZM etch TM, which was confirmed as problematic. The leather looks new as mentioned by others here. the patent button to compare of scabbard mouth where are no signs of heavy rust are chemicaly rusted patinated probably.
I personally would return the piece quickly.b.r.Andy

[Mac 66]

First thing i noticed was the weird crossgrain pattern on the RZM side of the blade

[Billy G]

I also have a number of questions about this knife, grip emblem, odd graining on the blade, maker mark, plenty of things that would make me think there's problems with authenticity. I'd return it for a less problematic item.

[Frogprince]

First thing i noticed was the weird crossgrain pattern on the RZM side of the blade

Same opinion, some of the other things mentioned not helping in making it a believable example. FP

[Saufaenger kid]

Everything this guy sells is either fake or humped up,
goes by the name Domarc or something like that off of Egun, right.!!!
Your HJ knife is a fake.

Gary

[Mac 66]

I zoomed into the motto side of the blade which i see has deep pitted areas & a long deep gouge above the motto, very dodgey piece !

[Frogprince]

I zoomed into the motto side of the blade which i see has deep pitted areas & a long deep gouge above the motto, very dodgey piece !

As you said VERY QUESTIONABLE. It looks to me like two different technologies were used to create this supposed "gem of collecting". Junk looking for somebody to purchase it. FP