From Hungary?

[Val]

Who cares about schematics at this point?
We are trying to ID this radio and you have all the information at your hand and you are not sharing it. Things don't work that way, especially in this forum.
You want information - you share all the information you have! Every bit counts. And i have a feeling that you already knew that too that there was Telefunken metal logo.

As i sayd, i'm not waisting my time anymore with this thread.

[csmagdo]

Siemens in Hungary

Siemens has been present in Hungary since 1887. They have put in function the firs tram, and they have been settled up the first underground railway on the old continent (not concerning about the UK.) in Budapest (1896), still in function, yesterday I was travelling with


At this time there is only a "technical" office in Bp. In 1902, the Hungarian Schuckert Works has been formed. In 1904, it unites with the Siemens-Halske Bp. doughter company under the name Hungarian Siemens-Schuckert Works. 1913: founding the cable factory and setup of the Hungarian Railways with the first automatic telephone and clock system. 1925: the first Hungarian radio station, and beginning the sales of radios (mostly under the AEG-Siemens owned Telefunken patents). In 1942 they start manufacturing (and exporting) radios under own, Hungarian patents. Here must come our VRFU in picture. From 1946 to 1953, the Hungarian Siemens was "socialized", the new Siemens Hungary was formed only in 1990.

The cable factory in 1927:


Kari, how about you share what you have?

Csaba

I have been through the Telefunken documentation, and there is nothing even close offered in the German and international catalogues. It seems that the Hungarian design and production was completely separate from the German factories, looking at the controls and components they seem to have little in common with German produced equipment (only the power supply plug looks like a pre-war Telefunken example).

Interestingly the type plate mentions Siemens Schuckert as the manufacturer rather than Telefunken. Siemens Schuckert was more typically involved in power generation and heavy industrial equipment, so I am not sure how they got involved in radio production. Unfortunately I can also not find out how and when Telefunken was linked to Siemens Schuckert in Hungary (at least not in german or english language documents), perhaps one of our Hungariann language members can do some online research and enlighten us.

So all in all the Telefunken link looks rather tenuous, and was probably purely commercial rather than technical.

regards,

Funksammler

[OH5YW]

I am very sorry if I am not expert but old and sick as my memory is bad and sight even worse. Cant see keyboard without big lamp and magnifying glasses.

But I will try harder...

I have not seen this radio in real life yet only poor pictures.

I have now scanned images of Finnish modified schematics which you can get here:

http://putkiradiomuseo.fi/VR

Kari

[csmagdo]

Dear Mr. Kari Syrjänen,

thank you for uploading it to your website. Is there any picture, photo of this model in that book?
Maybe even about the type plate...

Regards: Csaba

[Val]

OH5YW, apologies accepted but please scan all the information from that book regarded that set. The book gives complete description, instructions how to operate the set, how to repair the set. This is all very vital for the ID.

Finnish picture archive has some photos of that set. They are mirrored at this Russian site.

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9766/...e2a53e_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5309/...29fbd7_XXL.jpg

The other photo shows also the hand generator for that radio.

The whole picture gallery can be accessed here, there's lot of other radios too (Torn.Fu.d2 among the others).

http://www.fotowar.ru/?page=5400

[Val]

When i served in the army, there come one radio block with the manual from Hungary. Since there was lot of time, i learned little bit of Hungarian language. Although lot of time has passed, i still remember some radio related words and today they helped me.

http://oldradios1.com/?page_id=1892

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...02/r-6-a-v.jpg

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...mertetc591.jpg

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...2/dsc06531.jpg

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...-6-a-kapcs.jpg

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...evc591-001.jpg

Csaba, from there you take over

[Val]

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...epan_12206.jpg

[csmagdo]

R/6 then, solved. Fantastic. I would swear it was made by Telefongyár Rt. or Standard Rt...
Nice job, Val!

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...epan_12206.jpg

[Val]

Seems like Hungary has strong background with Telefunken - first Telefunken carriage based radios, then ARS 68.

http://oldradios1.com/?page_id=1832

There's some small differences between the Finnish and Hungarian R/6 - for example one knob down the left. Maybe the Finns have some special request and the factory made some changes for them... But i'm quite positive that since there's Telefunken logo on those radios, there must be some original Telefunken prototype as well...

Csaba, i have on special question for you. On that Russian picture i noticed three letter mark just under the type shield, but didn't quite make it - MIR or HIR or... It was riveted, not in screws like the Finnish markings.

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9766/...e2a53e_XXL.jpg

On the other photo i noticed it again, now in clear - HIR

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...2/dsc06531.jpg

What does it mean?

[csmagdo]

Telefunken@Hungary

Hi Val,

you are right about the ARS68, we made our first transceiver based on this license in 1918, under the name Klera (Klein Radio).

Back to the HIR: I think we are talking about two different things:
1. The small riveted plate under the top right fixing screw: I read it HTL (zoom to 200%), has to be Finnish. Kari?
2. The HIR sign on the flag: it comes from the word Hiradó (today correctly: Híradó), it means Signals. This flag was put on the Singals tent or on a tree/something next to the station. No. 6. in table: "Hir" állomászászló (Signals station flag).

Btw: there's another difference (and some more): the position of the writing and the alphabet tabs. On the Russian picture you may see the 2 original holes under the writing pad, marking the original position of the alphabet pad. On the Hungarian version's photo there are two extra connectors (under the extra button), vertically arranged, they look to me like telephony jack sockets...

What is clear for now:
1. Hugarian R/1 (Telefongyár Rt.) is the Finnish VRFU-A, the Finns called it ”pikku hallja”, meaning the "little hallja", where "hallja" comes from the "Ellenség is hallja!", fun As being Hungarian, I did not notice by now, but "hallja" really has a Finnish sounding as well. Kari?
2. Hugarian R/3 (Standard Rt.) is the Finnish VRFU-B.
R/1 on the left, R/3 on the right:

3. Hugarian R/6 (Hungarian Siemens-Schuckert Works, Telefunken license) is the Finnish VRFU-?, the one resulted this thread. Until now, Hungarian collectors thought every Hungarian radio was made by the first two makers, so S-S/Telefunken is a new player, learned something, again.

I will try to dig more on the task.
Let's go on with this, gents...

Csaba
__________________________________________________ _________

Seems like Hungary has strong background with Telefunken - first Telefunken carriage based radios, then ARS 68.

http://oldradios1.com/?page_id=1832

There's some small differences between the Finnish and Hungarian R/6 - for example one knob down the left. Maybe the Finns have some special request and the factory made some changes for them... But i'm quite positive that since there's Telefunken logo on those radios, there must be some original Telefunken prototype as well...

Csaba, i have on special question for you. On that Russian picture i noticed three letter mark just under the type shield, but didn't quite make it - MIR or HIR or... It was riveted, not in screws like the Finnish markings.

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9766/...e2a53e_XXL.jpg

On the other photo i noticed it again, now in clear - HIR

https://pappzoltan15.files.wordpress...2/dsc06531.jpg

What does it mean?

[OH5YW]

I have now scanned and uploaded all pages from "Kenttäradio-opas 1942" (Field Radio Guide" conserning of R/6 VRFU

You can find them all at http://putkiradiomuseo.fi/VR

Kari

[Val]

Back to the HIR: I think we are talking about two different things:
1. The small riveted plate under the top right fixing screw: I read it HTL (zoom to 200%), has to be Finnish. Kari?
2. The HIR sign on the flag: it comes from the word Hiradó (today correctly: Híradó), it means Signals. This flag was put on the Singals tent or on a tree/something next to the station. No. 6. in table: "Hir" állomászászló (Signals station flag).

Thanks, this could be really HTL or HTI alltogether. I thought and i still think it's Hungarian, since all Finnish labels are with screws..

Can you check this magazine?

http://www.honvedelem.hu/container/f...teljes_red.pdf

There is HTI mentioned in page 50 ( page 52 by pdf reader). There is also mentioned R6. Translating pdf is difficult and my Hungarian skills are bad, for you this is easy reading. Later there's also article about R7, maybe there is some references or info about R6 too...

(little bit later)

Csaba, can this label be HTI and this meaning be Haditechnikai Intézet?

ps. R7 article continues in those numbers.

http://www.honvedelem.hu/container/f...teljes_red.pdf

http://www.honvedelem.hu/container/f...teljes_red.pdf

Maybe there's in some number also article about R6?

[Val]

Now when the type of the transceiver is known, i's easy to find it also from the radiomuseum.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefon...mitter_re.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefon...eiver_r_6.html

There's that HTI again - HTI típuskönyv 1942.

And little bit fun also. Seems like Torn.E.b was R15, but how Hungarians got it to transmit also, is beyond my imagination

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/standar...eiver_r15.html

[csmagdo]

Hti

Many questions when giving answers...

Yes, HTI can definitely be Haditechnikai Intézet (Institute of Military Technology), alive from 1920 to 2007, web here.

The plate has to be a unique one, since no such plates are seen on the Hungarian few pieces we know. I can even imagine, that it was the property of the HTI, and due to the fact that the maker could not deliver in time (Finnish sources) the orders, they put together every single available piece.

The next question is that the two links about the R/6 you mention is naming the two makers I would suppose (TRT and Standard), so the Hun. S-S is still an odd one out... I think (due to the similar construction), that the R/6 (1936) is the successor of the R/3 (1932), so personally I am confused at the moment, what Telefunken/Siemens has to do with this story. In this point of view it will be very interesting to see the internals of Kari's specimen. E.g. the tubes...

As for R/7 and R/7a, here's an R/7a piece owned by a collector friend:
http://www.roncskutatas.hu/node/15747

The former R/7 model looked totally different:


As for the R/15 (as well as the R/16 and R/17): this is s set, like the Fu.5, where the receiver is the Torn.E.b. So the radiomuseum info in incomplete.

Did I miss anything?

Csaba
______________________________________________

Now when the type of the transceiver is known, i's easy to find it also from the radiomuseum.

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefon...mitter_re.html
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/telefon...eiver_r_6.html

There's that HTI again - HTI típuskönyv 1942.

And little bit fun also. Seems like Torn.E.b was R15, but how Hungarians got it to transmit also, is beyond my imagination

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/standar...eiver_r15.html

[Val]

Yes, HTI can definitely be Haditechnikai Intézet (Institute of Military Technology),

The plate has to be a unique one, since no such plates are seen on the Hungarian few pieces we know. I can even imagine, that it was the property of the HTI, and due to the fact that the maker could not deliver in time (Finnish sources) the orders, they put together every single available piece.

Thanks. So far seems that the HTI plate is present on all the Finnish sets.