Alte Art WH Infantry

[MM1985]

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[MM1985]

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[MM1985]

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[MM1985]

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[MM1985]

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[MM1985]

Many thanks for all the comments and questions.
To follow up I have to answer some questions:

1.) There is no glue etc. on the sweatband - this might be some light reflection from the flashlight of the camera because the first pics where taken inside the house at night.

2.) The sweatband is showing several crudely supporting stitches most likely done by the previous owner of the cap. I have seen this feauture on other Alte Art caps - once the sweatband became loose because of heavy use often the owner or something else fixed this one (often not in a professional manner). The supporting stiches/thread is also heavy worn matches perfect to the patina of the cap.

My other observations are the following:

+the cap is showing nice and fresh wool in the unworn areas and also in the area where the white piping is connected to the grey wool of the cap body.

+the insignia might be restored (or not) because the insignia is not that heavy worn like the cap so I guess it could had been a replacement at some time (post war or wartimet)

+I cannot find any flaw in construction and age/patina of this cap that points to a put together visor. The only not that common feature is the missing part of lining between the top panel and the sweatband but like Mr. Phild pointed out this was a feature seen in other wartime made caps so this is at least for me also no flaw/mistake.


I'm open to discuss the cap but if someone is not happy with this one he might point out what's wrong with this hat. If any other picture is needed please let me know - also if any other questions should be answered - I can check the cap in hand so please let me know if you want to know something.

[revi]

I also agree with the points phild made, furthermore, regarding the "missing" side lining: you'll also find that in some Alkero / Albert Kempf visors. Hope it's visible, lighting is bad at the moment.

[jacquesf]

Phild, i agree with your observation regarding crushers in general, but I don't think they apply to this one. There are quite a few close up pictures that show sewing where various parts of the visor comes together, that is not reflective of first time period construction imo . Not even refering to the insignia application.J

[enorepap]

I agree with Jacquesf and I repeat my previous words: the cap's body is undoubtedly original in my opinion (6). Is it possible to check for previous insignia? This is impossible to say from post no. 17. And also to check if the current front insignia are correctly applied? No one said a word about.

I note (and I agree, because MM1985 has this cap in his hands) that: there is no glue etc. on the sweatband - this might be some light reflection from the flashlight of the camera (21).

For Phild: it is well known that the Germans, in spite of their overtly lack of imagination, gave birth during six years of war with every possible and personalized variation. I also have a Reichsbahn PeKuRo that did not have lining material around the sides of the interior. Nothing special here ... but a swallow is not spring, especially with military caps and not civilian ones. In a nutshell, everything becomes possible if based on the possible exceptions and this forum is full of such examples. Following this path, this thread will met the fate of hundreds of others, closed without a definitive answer.

I said my humble opinion and I can not go beyond that.

Best regards

[RGD51]

Plenty of things make sense on this cap when you take into consideration the German cap makers art from WWI thru the nazi era. Many makers imparted a very old school touch to their product....countless examples are very frugal renderings that nevertheless show interesting details such as the silken cinch cord in the sweatband as this one does. I particularly like the silken top lining that is stained from hair oil, a seasoned campaigner for sure.

Robt.

[revi]

The visor body looks o.k. to me too, nice, The sweatband itself looks o.k. to me, maybe a bit short but it looks well used and period. It does appear as if the front white mesh between the outer body cloth and the inner lining cloth has been removed from the top (?), if I am correct the short remains are still visible in box 17 picture two and it could explain the threads hanging lose facing inwarts on the visor innerband. Furthermore I would, in case of a visor with no “side lining”, expect the top inner seam to be covered / enclosed by a strip of cloth ( although I've seen exceptions to that also ). Could it simply be the side lining and mesh has been removed? Which to me isn't a problem, seen that many times before on well used visors. Best regards, Seth.

[jacquesf]

I have never seen stitching like this on an untouched visor, but I guess each to his own. J

[jacquesf]

Look at this stitching and compare it to the outside as well.

[RGD51]

Understand your point Jacque and coming out of an old collection we dont know how the cap was when originally acquired much less how it looked when souvenired. Damaged during the war and repaired by its owner or just plain buggered post war by who knows how many previous owners.....? We can only speculate but i see these areas that are a concern.

Robt.

[phild]

I better see the concerns posted by several who raise possible problems.

I think that real care must be taken with this one. On the surface the wear and dirt on the inside seems very inconsistent with the real like of wear and dirt to the exterior in areas like the insignia and piping. As others suggested early on, holes from other insignia should be sought and a very careful determination made as to if that visor is period sewn.

While I stand by (and appreciate the photos posted of some examples!) what I said about peak caps (regulation Heer no less not just civil) being made without side lining (and they are rare IMO) that dose not mean that this example was so made!

This cap is a tough call for me from the photos, could be correct period old style with a replaced headband and maybe replaced insignia or could be made up from a peak cap with much being changed.....in that case most likely made up post war in this config not wartime modified.