Wehrmacht M41 Tropical Cap, opinions needed

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Richard

Thanks for info & showing another Franz Ritter Herr M40, looks real good so far

Can you post some images of both your Ritter M40's ? just the usual, grommets from the inside, insignia application, interior sweatband, visor from underneath etc.

& Ben

The threadstarter has what looks like natural wear to me, but maybe i'm missing something, do you mean the insignia ?

Maybe Franz Ritter did make Herr tropical M40's afterall ?

Thanks
Tim

[BenVK]

Maybe it's just the photos but to me, the whole cap looks to have been sandpapered.

[RGD51]

Richard T's cap is the more worn version of the cap that begins this thread...trikot cotton, lining, makers stamp, single line stitching under visor.....ka-ching! The splayed grommet issue is a fluke, that stuff happened all the time. There should be a strip of stiffener in the sweatband, might be good to have a look behind there...it could be black or white (?) but the rubberized outer finish is the same brown color.

Robt.

[Richard T]

Here's more photos of my cap from post #25 & 26. After that will be photos of my other M40 with same RBN.

[Richard T]

Left side grommets in and out.

[Richard T]

Under the hood.

[Richard T]

Now here's some photos of cap #2. All positive and negative comments appreciated;-)

[Richard T]

Cap #2

[Richard T]

More Cap #2, no lining:-(

[Richard T]

Last - Cap #2 grommet close up

[RGD51]

Thanks for your contribution....pretty much the icing on the cake for this expose'. Might be good to mention that Franz Ritters earlier stamp was Franz Ritter vorm Carl Roth Dettingen....seen in field caps, tan trop KM, and I believe some service dress caps. A friend of mine, who is a trop collector, owns a tan KM Ritter, beaded scallop, with earlier Dettingen stamp, that was converted to W/SS. After this thread it looks pretty affirming that he made Heer trop caps too.

Robt.

[90th Light]

Thanks for your contribution....pretty much the icing on the cake for this expose'. Might be good to mention that Franz Ritters earlier stamp was Franz Ritter vorm Carl Roth Dettingen....seen in field caps, tan trop KM, and I believe some service dress caps. A friend of mine, who is a trop collector, owns a tan KM Ritter, beaded scallop, with earlier Dettingen stamp, that was converted to W/SS. After this thread it looks pretty affirming that he made Heer trop caps too.

Robt.

Yes I have to agree, it does indeed seem to confirm that this maker made WH tropical caps. Absolutely love those grommets on Richard's two examples. Completely correct for this maker and 1943. It confirms post number 11 that if this maker did make WH tropicals then other original examples would emerge. On the other hand, sometimes such threads have revealed the source/ more examples of a fake. However, the question of fake is no longer the case here.

It also proves that you (RGD51) were right about the grommet crimping and Tim was correct about the same maker making their KM tropical caps in a different style to their WH tropical cats.

I am pleased this cap has turned out to be right because as NZ Mark rightly pointed out, the font of the makers stamp was too close for comfort. This was also a point causing me concern and endless comparisons.

I broke my own rules on this one. I came can to a conclusion quickly and wrote it off too fast. Just goes to show, the danger of how one has to be careful not to "throw the diamonds out with the dirt" in this game,

Chris

p.s. would love to now see an untouched example with 101% original insignia to see if they zig-zag stitched the WH tropical eagle/ cockade like on other caps made by them.

[RGD51]

Would affirm your P.S.! My friends Trop KM Ritter showed signs of the zig zag too....when they cut off the Km eagle insig noticeable fraying occurred in that area around the insig....all those little zigzags had to be cut and sometimes scored the twill near the eagle....ie: Richards cap # 2? I only mention my friends cap in that it had false beading, trikot twill, same grommets, and was KM trop Franz Ritter. In my mind it kind of seals the deal as to overall construction points, they add up and confirm.

Robt.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks Richard T for the additional photos of both your fine Ritter Herr M40's. Kicks the door down doesn't it ?! Agree the grommets are correct for both as is everything else. Interesting that the one cap has had its sweatband removed.

This thread has become very interesting. An unknown (for me) maker of M40's has emerged with not just one but three nice examples. All complimenting each other.

Another note is that some makers of both tropical Herr caps & KM caps used different styles and application etc. This is true also when you compare tropical caps to continental caps by the same maker. Sometimes they are the same or quite similar, other times style or the insignia application will be different from a tropical to continental cap from the same maker. Thankyou everyone for your knowledge and input.

Thanks again Richard for your outstanding contribution

& Jim looks like you got a winner, this is the WAF at its best

[90th Light]

This gets even more intriguing, Helmet Weitze also has a WH billed tropical cap by this maker for sale.

However, the font of the RB number stamp is nothing like the ones shown on this thread. And unlike any other that I have ever seen.

https://www.weitze.com/militaria/28/...n__260728.html

Note that there is no date ???

The cap does look to be original. It would be interesting to know why such a difference in the makers stamps ???

Chris

p.s. this one is interesting too because it is a WH tropical cap with the false flap, made in the style/ form of billed KM tropical caps by 0/0678/5015

https://www.weitze.com/militaria/29/...n__260729.html

Gotta to love those prices for later model billed tropical caps and wish him luck in today's market