Lw trop m41 cap : Help ?

[90th Light]

Thanks Chris,

Wondered about that too. So that puts this cap possibly even earlier than Dec '42 with an rbn#.

Like you Tim,

I will be interested to learn what other have seen or agree with.

It is an interesting point of discussion,

Chris

[clint-magnum]

Like you Tim,

I will be interested to learn what other have seen or agree with.

It is an interesting point of discussion,

Chris

very interesting .......

[Willi Z.]

It seems like the focus is on the RBNr and date. I don't like the markings, but not because of the presence of RBNr and the '42 date. I certainly believe RBNrs were in use before many think they were. In fact, I have a mint Heer rucksack that is dated 1941 and also has an RBNr.

[clint-magnum]

it will not change opinions but got 2 pics more :

[John Hodgin]

Thanks Chris,

Wondered about that too. So that puts this cap possibly even earlier than Dec '42 with an rbn#.

I will likely regret asking this, but would those who accept this stamp as genuine please explain why a supposedly private purchase cap would have an RB number in it.

It is illogical to compare Luftwaffe M41 caps to Heer M40 caps; not in construction, not in makings and manufacturers, and not in materials.

Despite the stated anomalies, (in Heer caps and Heer field-gear) and considering the great record of how genuine Luftwaffe tropical caps were marked, I do have a problem with the stamp, date, and the RB number..... in a private purchase Luftwaffe tropical cap.

[Willi Z.]

I agree John.

I too agree a RBNr should not be on this cap. And that the whole stamp is bogus. To clarify my confusing comment ("the presence of RBNr and the '42 date"): I was talking about RBNrs and dates in general. Mixing apples and oranges....

[Paris Gun]

As John and Willi have pointed out, IF this wasn't a private purchase hat, as indicated by the presence of the RB#, then where are the vent holes?

I can accept the absence of such from a field-made piece, but practically EVERY example of tropical cap that I have seen or handled around the alleged date of manufacture (1942 & thereafter), regardless of where the hat was made (Italy, France, etc.), had air vents- with the exception of perhaps a few Officer hats whose date of manufacture &/or whether they were private purchased hats OR government sanctioned/ government issued could not be ascertained to any degree of certainty given the lack or absence of key details necessary to draw a conclusion one way or the other.

I don't mind seeing a RB# in maker-marked tropical hats, nor in earlier dated items (as Willi pointed out), but the only factory issued tropical hats that I've seen (regardless of where they were made: Germany, Italy, France, Etc), which were void of any air vents, were very early examples constructed from 1940 to 1941.

So, IMO this hat has two strikes against it: 1) No air vents despite being RB#'d AND dated 1942, and 2) Presence of a RB#, as such does not excuse the lack of air vents, construction details, and other abnormalities that one would be inclined to accept &/or overlook IF the hat was either fieldmade &/or privately purchased. In other words, I would NOT be inclined to believe this hat to be a wartime original, and any comparison suggested to be drawn or inferred from the posted images of the two Luft tropical hats with sharply scalloped side panels would be a total mistake from the onset.

SORRY!

(EDIT: I originally overlooked John's initial reference to the lack of air vents, perhaps because most of the discussion shifted to the RB#, so I don't want my long diatribe above to seem as though I was the ONLY person to mention the "air vent problem"; John said it first, so he gets the 1st place blue ribbon.
BUT, the "air vent problem" should be an equally important issue of discussion, perhaps more so than the RB# (which I believe is a 'red herring' provided to give the hat some sort of legitamacy since its construction details are meant to mimic a factory made hat rather than a field &/or foreign-made hat). Thanks.)

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks Chris,

Wondered about that too. So that puts this cap possibly even earlier than Dec '42 with an rbn#.

Hi John,

Sorry for confusion. This post of mine was directed to the Herr M40 Chris posted in # 11 to 14. Not the threadstarter. Also my comment about the Hans Brandt's having rbn#'s in Jan '43. Though it is interesting to learn of the earliest date for the rbn# first being used. Apples & oranges....

Agree if the/any cap came from a factory it should have a date/size & maker/rbn# and airvents. If private purchase it should not have an rbn#.

No regrets here John & Willi, but thanks for added info

[90th Light]

Let me say first, I agree fully with the decision about the LW billed tropical cap you have posted. Based on those images it looks to be a reproduction designed to try and fool.

No argument from me about the cap which started this thread,

I repeat above what I stated in post number 11

The point I was making is that there are some original tropical caps that can be RB numbered and dated 1942 across the spectrum of such caps but they are rare.

The only factory made original billed tropical cap that I have ever seen without grommets is the SS version. There is the odd rare SS example that does not have grommets. All factory made billed tropical WH M40's & KM M42's that I have handled have always had grommets,

Chris