State of the Hobby re: Cloth Headgear

[stonemint]

As most may be aware, there is a (very) long thread on the SS Forum about the SS Forum and the collecting/value of SS artifacts now, pre-recession, and into the future.

Obviously, this forum is not as active as it was during the pre-Great Recession days of 2006-2008. I would assume that many factors are at work here.

In any event, I am interested to hear commentary on the hobby as it pertains to cloth headgear in general (ie, not helmets, medals, or daggers).

[Crusader17]

I've only been collecting since 2009, but I see items listed for sale now, that sit for weeks unsold, at prices significantly less than similar items back in 2009.

Back then you had to buy as soon as you saw it or it was gone.

Tremendous difference now, and if you are observant, you will see some collectors are systematically liquidating their collections. I would assume at a loss....

Just my observations, but I think people are hanging on to their exceptional condition items, and thinning out the more common. The problem with this is that there are not enough new/entry level collectors to "take up the slack" so to speak.

Bob

[Z19]

hobby

This subject has been bantered around on most of the forums on the WAF from time to time over the past couple years. The good stuff will always sell and command good prices, though maybe not at pre recession levels where the prices were way over inflated!! But yet you still see those same prices on Estand and dealers sites. Until sellers & dealers realize that just because they have $475 in a cased Iron Cross 1st class that was bought in 2007 and it is actually worth maybe 60% of that now then things won't change.

I was as guilty as anybody and have more $$$ in a few pieces than I should have, but that's the name of the game. As far as that thread on the SS forum it started out as a good thread, but about half way through turned into a bash the USA capitalism thread so I stopped reading. Alex

[ccnrecon]

I would be interested in knowing if the following prices are still what one should expect to pay for an unquestionable original example of the following:
1) heer m43 enlisted cap 1000-1500 USD
2) Hermann Meyer cap with neck cover $3500+
3) ss late war m43 officers cap trapezoid insignia $2700+
4) early war bergmutze $1500+
5) ss contract m43 cap with two piece insignia (not late war gabardine or statni caps) $5000+

I am especially interested to know if heer m43 caps are soft at the moment. I see textbook originals on dealer sites for $1500. The only textbook original late war ss officers cap with trapezoid insignia combat worn that I see online is $3500.

[afrikasandman]

I think it depends on the items and the cap style. The PzGrn stuff has remained pretty stiff for untouched items, but as the latest CG auction showed, the prices for repaired and common items are way down. Not a lot of new younger collectors other than myself and a handful of others it seems and I am only buying specific pieces for my limited collection focus. The common stuff isn't selling unless its almost a give away price.. perhaps just the trend we are seeing right now. I guess either way im in the hobby for the hobby so hopefully i'll still be able to snag up some killer officer headgear for early schutzen and PzGrn caps. Even if the hobby bottoms out im still a player for those items. Matt

[tgn]

I would be interested in knowing if the following prices are still what one should expect to pay for an unquestionable original example of the following:
1) heer m43 enlisted cap 1000-1500 USD
2) Hermann Meyer cap with neck cover $3500+
3) ss late war m43 officers cap trapezoid insignia $2700+
4) early war bergmutze $1500+
5) ss contract m43 cap with two piece insignia (not late war gabardine or statni caps) $5000+

I am especially interested to know if heer m43 caps are soft at the moment. I see textbook originals on dealer sites for $1500. The only textbook original late war ss officers cap with trapezoid insignia combat worn that I see online is $3500.

This SS M43 just came "out of the woodwork". http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=671538 It has some moth damage, but is untouched since brought back from the war. What is it worth?

[ccnrecon]

This SS M43 just came "out of the woodwork". http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=671538 It has some moth damage, but is untouched since brought back from the war. What is it worth?

I would say 5-6k.

[tgn]

I would say 5-6k.

Interesting.

On a Heer M43, would you sell a nice all original one in great condition for less than $1000?

Tom

[Lenny W]

Interesting.

On a Heer M43, would you sell a nice all original one in great condition for less than $1000?

Tom

[ccnrecon]

Likely not. However, I would imagine they would be a tough sell at $1500-1600 nowadays. I got rid of a beautiful enlisted ss contract m43 with two piece insignia a few months ago and got 6500 for it. More important than what something is priced at or worth at any given moment, I am interested in knowing that in general, is demand softening for the above referenced caps. If so, to what extent? Are caps experiences the same correction as ss items?

[tgn]

Likely not. However, I would imagine they would be a tough sell at $1500-1600 nowadays. I got rid of a beautiful enlisted ss contract m43 with two piece insignia a few months ago and got 6500 for it. More important than what something is priced at or worth at any given moment, I am interested in knowing that in general, is demand softening for the above referenced caps. If so, to what extent? Are caps experiences the same correction as ss items?

In the old days, they often said: "junk today, junk tomorrow", "nice today, even nicer tomorrow"

I think the "nice" items will always bring good prices. It is the marginal items that you have to worry about.

Tom

[Robert Shoaf]

As others have said, the more " common" headgear seem to languish on dealer sites, since most are overpriced, whereas good deals can be had on the Estand.
I'm speaking, of course, of visor caps with infantry and artillery waffenfarbe especially; it seems that panzer, panzergrenadier, gebirgsjager, etc. still carry a premium.
Same with common Luftwaffe enlisted caps, although I have seen caps that are, IMHO, way overpriced.
SS caps are a minefield that I choose to avoid!
I must confess that I am flabbergasted over the prices that common Heer M-43 caps command, especially vs. Luftwaffe versions, which seem to be about half of the Heer price. I realize that many M-43's were worn postwar, sans insignia, but they made literally millions of them;I just don't get it.
Dealers , to me, seem to be turning into online museums, with some exceptions. The same bloody headgear, month after month; ever think of putting on a SALE?? And not 10% off!
I usually attend the MAX and SOS Shows each year, which I enjoy, but where I have never bought an item from a major dealer; it's always the small dealer, or other collector with a table or two who has real world prices and is willing to bargain.
I must confess that I am always seeking a bargain, and am put off by what I consider to be exorbitant prices in many cases; I may be cheap and mistaken, but I believe, in general, much of what's out there for sale has been priced too high, for far too long. That said, I have no confidence at all that prices will decrease.
I am of the generation whose fathers served in WWII, in my case, the Army Air Corps; I seriously wonder if subsequent generations will have the personal connection and enthusiasm that we old fogeys do. Oh, there will be many exceptions, at least I hope so.

Bob Shoaf

[CWP]

I have been selling a number of hats on the E-Stand in recent months. Very little has sold quickly, and virtually all of the items sold for less that I would have expected to have paid for like items in 2008. Cloth headgear, in general, is very tough to sell on the E-Stand right now unless priced very far below dealer retail. In fact the last three caps I actually sold there were bought by dealers. I know that the E-Stand is not the entire militaria market but this is a worldwide forum (nearly all of the hats I have sold have gone to Europe) and I do not think it is unreasonable to look at E-Stand sales as an indicator for the market as a whole. The drop in prices for visors seems to me to be particularly acute. What's an average Heer Infantry visor in worn condition worth now, a realistic sale price? $400-$450, have they dropped that much? In my opinion, and speaking as a guy who has never focused on visors, common Heer and Luftwaffe visor values have fallen as much or more than values for items in any other segment of the hobby.

In 2006-2009 Heer M43 caps seemed virtually unobtainable. I was looking for one then and any offered on dealer sites (and there were very few) was snapped up in a heartbeat. Now the delaer sites have piles of textbook original caps with factory applied insignia being offered. There is no doubt that demand has softened for these caps, at least those offered at dealer prices. I don't know if anybody knows what the market value is for a Heer M43 cap right now, other than that it is something less than it was a few years ago. Those offered at $1500 have been sitting for a while and I suspect will remain unsold for some time to come.

[jacquesf]

I have been selling a number of hats on the E-Stand in recent months. Very little has sold quickly, and virtually all of the items sold for less that I would have expected to have paid for like items in 2008. Cloth headgear, in general, is very tough to sell on the E-Stand right now unless priced very far below dealer retail. In fact the last three caps I actually sold there were bought by dealers. I know that the E-Stand is not the entire militaria market but this is a worldwide forum (nearly all of the hats I have sold have gone to Europe) and I do not think it is unreasonable to look at E-Stand sales as an indicator for the market as a whole. The drop in prices for visors seems to me to be particularly acute. What's an average Heer Infantry visor in worn condition worth now, a realistic sale price? $400-$450, have they dropped that much? In my opinion, and speaking as a guy who has never focused on visors, common Heer and Luftwaffe visor values have fallen as much or more than values for items in any other segment of the hobby.

In 2006-2009 Heer M43 caps seemed virtually unobtainable. I was looking for one then and any offered on dealer sites (and there were very few) was snapped up in a heartbeat. Now the delaer sites have piles of textbook original caps with factory applied insignia being offered. There is no doubt that demand has softened for these caps, at least those offered at dealer prices. I don't know if anybody knows what the market value is for a Heer M43 cap right now, other than that it is something less than it was a few years ago. Those offered at $1500 have been sitting for a while and I suspect will remain unsold for some time to come.

I agree 100% , my experience as will. J

[ccnrecon]

I have been selling a number of hats on the E-Stand in recent months. Very little has sold quickly, and virtually all of the items sold for less that I would have expected to have paid for like items in 2008. Cloth headgear, in general, is very tough to sell on the E-Stand right now unless priced very far below dealer retail. In fact the last three caps I actually sold there were bought by dealers. I know that the E-Stand is not the entire militaria market but this is a worldwide forum (nearly all of the hats I have sold have gone to Europe) and I do not think it is unreasonable to look at E-Stand sales as an indicator for the market as a whole. The drop in prices for visors seems to me to be particularly acute. What's an average Heer Infantry visor in worn condition worth now, a realistic sale price? $400-$450, have they dropped that much? In my opinion, and speaking as a guy who has never focused on visors, common Heer and Luftwaffe visor values have fallen as much or more than values for items in any other segment of the hobby.

In 2006-2009 Heer M43 caps seemed virtually unobtainable. I was looking for one then and any offered on dealer sites (and there were very few) was snapped up in a heartbeat. Now the delaer sites have piles of textbook original caps with factory applied insignia being offered. There is no doubt that demand has softened for these caps, at least those offered at dealer prices. I don't know if anybody knows what the market value is for a Heer M43 cap right now, other than that it is something less than it was a few years ago. Those offered at $1500 have been sitting for a while and I suspect will remain unsold for some time to come.

Indeed. It seems the 1500 heer m43 is a thing of the past for now. Textbook exames I see online are all 1500. Most unsold. I consider genuine m43's with original to the cap insignia very desire able. What would a dealer pay for one? Perhaps 800-900 max now. What about Waffen ss visors? There is one on PVL's site now unsold for less than 7000 euro.