The myth about the "Einsatzstab Rosenberg" visor

[Kurt]

This is one of those threads that will probably not get a lot of attention as it is outside the interest of most collectors.

I would still like to post the new evidence (and post some older evidence) that I have found with regards to the identification of these visors. All the known examples are made by Schellenberg, have a green capband, Diplo-style wreath and (usually) a miniature version of a cap eagle similar to the sleeve eagle worn by the "regular" RMBO (but different from their visor cap eagle).

They are ULTRA rare and due to one photo of members of the Einsatzstab Rosenberg wearing a similar (or this style) visor with their distinct uniform, these caps are offered by dealers at about 8,000 USD $ as Einsatzstab Rosenberg visors.

[Kurt]

Let's take a look at the regulations first of all (the Germans liked their rules). This has been posted in a different thread already (special credit to Wilhelm Saris):

"Einsatzstab Reichsleiter Rosenberg for them the cap band was dark-brown as for practically all other Ostbeamten.
In the "Amtsblatt des Reichsministeriums für die besetzten Ostgebiete", 1943 with number 76, dated October 19, 1943 it was noted that employees from the Deutsche Reichspost had to wear green collar-patches with an orange piping; the cap band should be GREEN. "

So the regulations already state that the green capband stands for DEUTSCHE REICHSPOST.

Regular RMBO and Einsatzstab Rosenberg had brown capbands, the collar tabs are orange or red and always have silver or gold piping.

Here are two examples of RMBO DEUTSCHE REICHSPOST collar tabs:

[spandau226]

Hi kurt

Interesting and unusual cap.

Thanks for the info as I have never seen this one before. Always learning !

Wonder why they are all schells ?

cheers

tony

[Kurt]

Here are regular RMBO tabs, they always have metallic piping...

[Kurt]

Now the trick will be to find a period photo (ideally in color) to show such a cap in wear. The good news is that with the internet, they become easier to find. I will start with one example I pulled off the WAF.

Interesting as this gentleman is not wearing the distinct Einsatzstab Rosenberg uniform, his collar is lighter than the capband (the color of the collar is dark brown) and the tabs don't seem to have metalic piping either.

Bellow, you see a comparison of the RMBO DEUTSCHE POST collar tabs in black and white next to this gentleman's collar tab. Couldn't that be a green collar tab with orange piping?

[Kurt]

Here is another example (and this one is new as it just surfaced here in Germany and was added to my collection today). This gentleman is clearly NOT wearing a Rosenberg uniform but also not the RMBO visor with the regular eagle.

[Kurt]

I should probably add the only known image of members of the Einsatzstab Rosenberg wearing such a visor (or similar) with their distinct uniform as not everyone may be familiar with them...

[Kurt]

So all of these factors point towards this not being Rosenberg and possibly DEUTSCHE POST (according to the regulations). Then this was posted here on the WAF.

Look at that, another Einsatzstab Rosenberg visor worn with an RMBO tunic with collar tabs that don't have metallic piping and a Postschutz buckle...

[Kurt]

So here is another piece of the puzzle.

On Brian Maederer's site, another one of these gorgeous hats went up for sale. It appears to be an entirely untouched example & luckily, it is named and guess what the rank is?

Obertelegrapheninspektor

[Kurt]

(...)
Wonder why they are all schells ?

cheers

tony

Tony,

they probably just managed to get the contract for these. If you want to add a nice and rare Postal worker; they are available: http://www.militarycollectiblesinc.c...oducts_id=7867

Best Kurt

[stonemint]

Kurt, great research! I have to agree with you. Now that they have been proven to be a lowly Post visor, prices should collapse immediately!

[Kurt]

It wasn't my intention to destroy the value of these caps for those who own them but rather preserve the little knowledge that can be gained when you put the pieces together. Others can add their observations here; when the Reference books on RMBO were published, these were still unreferenced...

[ErichK]

A very interesting thread Kurt, as these are indeed very rare visors with scant information about them.
So, what I see in the photos are several different branches of "Ost Beampten" (for lack of a better general description). One wearing the Postschutz buckle, the visor from Maederer's site being for a "telegraphic inspector" which would fall under the aegis of the Postschutz - if I'm not mistaken, Einsatzstab Rosenberg officers and what seems to be a postal official of some kind. All of these wearing the same visor.
Now, as these are three completely different organizations but each wearing the same visor, I wonder if the visor was not intended as a general or generic visor for officers/officials in these "eastern territories" organizations where the actual number of officers was very small in total. Food for thought...

[afrikasandman]

Kurt,

very cool cisor with all the history to go with it! you are pulling out some killer stuff man and congrats on another killer piece for your collection. Matt

[Kurt]

(...)
Now, as these are three completely different organizations but each wearing the same visor, I wonder if the visor was not intended as a general or generic visor for officers/officials in these "eastern territories" organizations where the actual number of officers was very small in total. Food for thought...

Interesting thought Erich and I'd say it is very possible this was just a generic visor for several smaller Eastern Territories organisations. Until we find color photos, we will never know for sure.

The regulations, however, indicate that the green capband was reserved for DEUTSCHE POST only. So at least the evidence points towards these being worn by members of the DEUTSCHE POST in the Eastern Territories. We cannot say for sure that the Einsatzstab Rosenberg didn't wear Postal worker's caps (with the green capband) but even if they did, this doesn't make these caps "Rosenberg visors". It'd be like saying every Luftwaffe officer's visor is a paratrooper.

One observation (and this has crossed my mind) is that ALL of these period photos show the 2nd pattern RMBO tunics (rarely encountered in period pics) with this style visor. Maybe two of these (with the exception of the guy wearing the Postschutz buckle) had brown cap bands and are just wearing a second model of the RMBO officer's cap...

@Matt: thanks for the kind words my friend but this time I actually did something I usually never do; just pulled some pics off a dealer's site. Would love to own that visor but didn't have the extra 8K to throw against this Postal worker.

I will be fair and post the link to this one as well. I'd personally say though that the example on Maederer's site is by far the better "deal" as it is named: http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/093h13.html