Coast Artillery Officer or Dud?

[Richard P]

Photo 1. ErichK. No bottom piping, officer chincords, blue lining.

Photo 2. VaughnO. No bottom piping, officer chincords.

[Richard P]

Photo 1. KMSpain. Metal eagle, officer chincords and blue lining.

Photo 2. KMSpain. No bottom piping and blue lining.

[Richard P]

Photo 1. RonR. No bottom piping, officer chincords.

Photo 2. ChrisH. Early Assman eagle, no bottom piping, officer chincords.

[Richard P]

Photo 1 & 2. Zauberflote. No bottom piping and officer chincords.

[Richard P]

For review, the KM & CA metal Assman insignia.

[Richard P]

My cap's insignia. The buttons are sewn on, and also Assman Co. marked plus 12mm.

The piping is dark green wool, as are most, if not all CA visor caps. There is no wear underneath the insignia. All insignia prongs are underneath the lining....not through.

[Richard P]

The button is sewn, as are the majority of KM caps. No prongs from the insignia come through at all.

[Richard P]

I believe these are the man's initials...not some reminder that this is a KM hat or whatever was being alluded to.

[Richard P]

Last photo. Another lining shot.

For the KM collector that isn't aware, as of Sept. 1938 all ranks of Coast Artillery had the option to wear metal or bullion insignia.

The ranks of Fahnrich, Oberfahnrick, and Marineunterarite (high NCO's) all had the option to wear silver officers chincords.

Richard

[Arran]

I like this cap and I love the material its made out of- you sometimes see KA tunics made out of it as well. Of course the KM was someones initials, and I doubt a faker would mark it up as aggressively as the original owner did!

[R.Beck]

Im not going to get into a pissing match with you Richard. You have to live with the cap not me. And although I have nothing to prove to you I can assure you I have one of the finest collection of German Marine visors money can buy and sleep well at night knowing they are spot on.

And I have NOT removed any comments on this or any other posting about this subject. Enjoy your cap.

AND Arran what the hell are you talking about? How would you know what those initials stand for? Pardon my bluntness but your clearly talking out of your ass.

[Kurt]

Kurt has said it better than I ever could but let me just say this, set aside my opinions and just look at the facts:

A. That is not the correct eagle for a KM NCO cap
(...)

Others have posted the cataloge already but I wanted to contribute these pics also. Here is why I think the insignia on Richard's cap could very well be legit:

1. The eagle is clearly KM-style (also WH General's wore silver for another eight years when the first pattern eagles were introduced).
2. To my knowledge, the first pattern eagles did not exist in different sizes. The Tellerform implies that it is indeed a Weimar era cap that was rebadged.
3. The chin cords lead me to believe that this particular cap belonged to an officer.

[km-spain]

Hello, I'm curently in Peru working so no chance to see and comment this interesting tr¡hread, in 2-3 days I will be back at home. Anyway some points.

- Eagle is correct IMO as an early model, not rare to see in period pictures. Kurt there were two different sizes, one for visors and other for tellers. Last Ciney's fair I found, and saw, one of the smaller model for first time. I will show you.
- About the cap that started this thread I would like to see it (pictures) slowly, but I have one question for Richard, the higger piping of the body cap is also missing or it's there, from pictures I belive that this one only has the top piping, hasn't it?

Sorry no more time now but I will post again here for sure as this is a very interesting subjet for me.

[Leroy]

In the Halcomb/Faris/Spronk volumes on headgear, it is mentioned that the version of the first pattern KM eagle with the black swastika was often used for "walking out dress" caps.

Of course, no one can say with certainty about the "K.M." markings, but in a KM Rangliste I glanced at last night, there were at least 40 officers with the initials "K.M.", several of whom were associated with artillery units. Such lists do not include officer aspirants, who were also allowed to wear officer cords.

P.S. Good to hear from you, Eduardo!

[km-spain]

Hello all, finally I'm back after my trip and have read this thread again. About Richard's cap there are some points to consider.

- I agree with kurt about the rebadged Stahlhelm visors, we have seen a few of them (last one in Ciney last month), and some with the blue lining as the KM visors. In some of them is not easy to see if is a rebadged cap or not, but in others is eeasy as the original holes of the Stahlhelm insignias are still present. I also have seen the new holes for the KM chinstrap when it has been changed.

- The fabric of this cap is strange and I have never seen one like this before on a KM cap.

So this one could be original KA visor or a rebadged Stahlhelm one, not possible to be sure, but to be honest with you Richard if I see this one in a fair probably I would pass of it, but this not mean that it's a bad one.

A. That is not the correct eagle for a KM NCO cap

Why this one is not right?, this model was used on early KA visors by EM and NCO as we can see usually on period pictures.

2. To my knowledge, the first pattern eagles did not exist in different sizes.

Kurt you can find the first model eagle in two different sizes, smaller for Tellermutzes and the usual one for visors, but the first ione is really rare and I have seen only this one that I bought last Ciney.