Coast Artillery Officer or Dud?

[Richard P]

So far only one person has questioned this cap, but anyone please feel free to do so. I am posting the same photos, lightened up a little bit. Feel free to request any other views you may desire.

Here is a link to the previous thread. LINK: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...474416&page=15

CRITICISM:

well, I certainly don't want to be the party popper here but I wouldn't be doing you a favor either by not saying anything. Headgear (especially marine) has been by passion for a good decade or so and having many KM caps in my possession, both imperial and KM, I can say with complete certainty that yours is highly suspect.

Really, do I need to state the obvious? Exactly what notable KM colkectors gave u the thumbs up? The fabric of the cap alone , and the piping weave? The eagle? And the fact that someone thought it was necessary to place KN initials everywhere? Its is meant to be an NCO cqp without a strap. This ones a stinker IMO

Richard

[Richard P]

Interior view.

[Kurt]

The biggest danger with these in my opinion are rebadged Stahlhelm visors. They also lack the bottom piping and the cloth is very similar. I think nobody doubts this is an original period visor but the question remains if it started life as a field grey Reichsmarine cap that was rebadged in 1935 for the Kriegsmarine. Since it has the blue lining found on many of these field grey Navy caps, I'd personally say it has a chance. The cap band width is a little odd though so interior shots of the wreath's application might shed some light here...

Kurt

[R.Beck]

Kurt has said it better than I ever could but let me just say this, set aside my opinions and just look at the facts:

A. That is not the correct eagle for a KM NCO cap
B. That cap (assuming it is a KM NCO cap, has cords instead of the standard strap.

The cap has been messed with and last I checked this is a very expensive hobby and if I'm going to plop down 2, 3, 4,000 dollars on a KM artillery cap it damn sure better be good.

Hell, I made a serious 10,000.00 mistake on a wanna be SS cap a couple years back and BenVK saved my ass for a stupid obvious mistake. Return the cap my fellow member

[billbert]

For what its worth to you Richard...I LIKE it more than I dont..wouldnt pay top dollar for it ..BUT ...I could believe it...

Billbert

[jacquesf]

"Coast Artillery Officer or Dud?"

Who is DUD? The maker? I hope you got this cap for free.Jacques

[Leroy]

This has the potential to be an interesting discussion, if we can keep our built in prejudices to ourselves and just establish some legitimate parameters. The subject of Coastal Artillery headgear (and uniforms, too) has not been explored in depth here and deserves to be.

In the interest of full disclosure, I, for one, like Richard's cap, having not had, however, the advantage of handling it in person and only seeing photos as posted here. I would really like to know more. Although I have collected KM for at least 40 years, I have concentrated on "blue water" KM uniforms and visors and have virtually ignored CA.

The observations of both Kurt and Gebirgsjäger are important. I had not even considered the possibility of a re-badged Stahlhelm cap or the idea that this was intended to be, at best, an NCO cap which has been played with, including having the wrong eagle. The piping, and other construction areas, need to be addressed as well. I would ask that Richard provide photos of where the insignia is attached (on the inside) as well as better photos of the lining, the piping, the sweatband, and the "support" material around the base of the cap. Also the buttons and how they are attached. I hope that others will provide detailed photos of their own Coastal Artillery visor caps for comparison.

In looking at both Angolia/Schlicht and the Assmann catalog , I see what appears to be the same eagle listed as the early pattern KM eagle (see photos below). Also, in looking at photos previously posted on WAF and elsewhere, I see a lot of different piping styles and methods used on purportedly original CA caps. What is really correct for these caps and is there just one correct type? How about Stahlhem caps? Be nice to see some of those, too.

[Leroy]

Here are some photos of the only (purported) CA cap I have, which sits alone and solitary with the blue and white ones. (IGNORE the visor. When I found the cap on a table at a small show at least 35 years ago, the original visor was broken into multiple pieces and destroyed, with large pieces missing. This is a replacement - original - I found and tacked on recently so the cap could at least be displayed after sitting in a box for years.)

I am posting it because it appears to be an original CA cap (for a ranking officer no less) and because there is no piping above or below the cap band. All those years ago, no one cared the slightest, or even knew much about, CA, and the cap, because it was so damaged, cost almost nothing. The buttons are sewn on (not attached by prongs) and are marked 'KRIEGSMARINE -19 M 39. Is it original? Will it contribute to what we know about CA caps?

[Leroy]

The insignia.

[Leroy]

Top and inside.

[R.Beck]

personally I squirm whenever I see a sweat shield removed. If this shield was such a nuisance for the officer, would he not have removed it from the get go? Hence a more even sign of soiling? Just a thought.

I'd still like to hear from our resident experts KM spain and Herr Michael on the previous cap before we tear into yours with all due respect

[Leroy]

You are more than welcome to tear into mine, and I also would love to hear from Michel and Eduardo. The point here is to learn, not attack.

[R.Beck]

You are more than welcome to tear into mine, and I also would love to hear from Michel and Eduardo. The point here is to learn, not attack.

Sorry, I shouldn't have put it quite like that. I simply meant before it was discussed

[Richard P]

A. That is not the correct eagle for a KM NCO cap
B. That cap (assuming it is a KM NCO cap, has cords instead of the standard strap.

The cap has been messed with

Gebirgsjager,

Considering that KM and Imperial caps are your passion, and yet you have never posted even one, or better yet, commented on one. I will respond to your only criticism of anyone on the entire KM thread. Oh wait...there was a criticism by you...and it was also directed at me about a joke between myself and another collector. Those posts all conveniently disappeared yesterday. Magic.

Perhaps a review of these Coast Artillery caps previously posted will help refresh your knowledge.

Photo 1 & 2. Credit KMSpain. NCO CA cap with correct EARLY Assman Coast Artillery insignia for officers and NCO's. Vulcan fiber visor and no bottom piping just like mine.

Richard

[Richard P]

Photo 1 Zauberflote...no bottom piping, officer flatwire insignia and NCO strap.

Photo 2 Kurt...metal eagle later style, no bottom piping, and officer chincords, also blue lining.