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gebirgsjager cap, opinions!

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    #31
    Hello again to all my friends. I would love to post pics of some of my hats and other offerings, including the Officer's Berg that I spoke of earlier; however, I have no pics to upload, and I certainly can't do that here at my office. Tell you what, I'll take pictures soon enough and have the pics put on a CD so I can have one of y'all post them. I'm sure I can rely on my good bud, Manny-the Italian Stallion, to help me out.

    Back to the Berg in question. Here's what I like about the hat: the exterior color of the air vents; the doeskin wool and its color as shown in the pics; the toned insignia; the actual piping; the presence of the piping corresponds with the date; the cap's shape; and most importantly, the rounded portion on the ear flaps, as clearly evident by JVH's superb example (contrasted with the squared appearance shown in post #16).

    What concerns me are: whether the stamping is correct; whether Willy Sprengfeil would make a private/officer's quality cap; a better view of the air grommets from the interior; lack of photo evidence of the button holes and the back of the buttons (as mentioned earlier by Langemark); and lack of photo evidence clearly establishing the manner in which the sweatband is attached.

    The color of the sweatband alone does not kill the hat, nor does the presence of the two air vents on each side instead of only one. What will kill the hat is the TYPE of sweatband. Post-war type sweatbands, regardless of their color (although gray is absolutely the most common for BW) have a thin piece of plastic that the sweatband is zig-zag stitched to. Wartime sweatbands, if the appearance is similar in configuration to post-war styles, will either be attached to a piece of velvet/felt or cloth, or to leather/lacquered covered cloth with a wooden stiffener. However, the later is rarely encountered except on really nice private purchase caps, and when encountered, most collectors suffer an immediate knee-jerk reaction b/c nearly all "Janke" hats have this feature (AND, Janke's sweatbands vary in colors other than gray)!

    I am not convinced this hat is a fake; I'm simply giving ManuelR and his Berg the benefit of the doubt that his cap is likely original. However, I am not positive it is original, but I certainly hope it is!

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      #32
      Manny-The Italian Stallion.............how do you know?.....have you met Donatella,Laura,Elisa,Paola,Francesca,Sara,Daniela ,Eva,Gloria,Jasmeen,Patricia,Sara II..................
      I'll post them for you and I won't doctor them...well...sort of...I'll see what I can do!I hope Manuel cap is original too but imo is kinda iffy and God knows how much incases like this I'd love to be proved wrong!!!
      Talk to you soon Gunny
      Manny

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        #33
        re

        Hello Manuelr

        I also find your cap a very nice one but just as Bart told you
        from telling this only from pic,s it is just a very hard call

        Although some would say the grey sweatband would be a red flag for somepeople< I would say if the faker,s would know this on monday
        friday they would have another collour

        Maybe is it possible to see how the edelweiss was attached on the inside of the flap???


        Here I attach the same marker,s of your cap
        this is on the e-stand a very veery nice Km-overseas-cap
        that is offerd by our member Michel
        Attached Files
        sigpicalways seeking = BEVO Cap and breast insignia

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          #34
          well what a berg!!! here are some answers to your questions:
          about the sweatband attached none of yours is encountered here, it is stitched directly, no plastic . the bottons have a name in the back small lettering . knopfe the other word starts I think with a B and little ges.gesch something like that.
          bellow the proof of the two airvents (see photo).....................
          for the other fotos I need a better camera!
          thanks again for your efforts!!! I will post his uniform tomorrow, then I will tell to whom this lot was from!!!! he was a real hero!
          regards manuel
          Attached Files

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            #35
            any more opinions????? regards and thanks manuel

            Comment


              #36
              Hello to All,

              I think here must be put an end to a widespread belief that the presence of a gray sweatband automatically implies that the cap is a fake.

              See below a gray leather sweatband on a common Heer officer's Schirmmütze. The pictured part (rear area) is hand sewn, while the forehead part is machine stitched.

              Mark
              Attached Files

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                #37
                Here's is an other gray leather sweatband on a late-war SA Skimütze. This sweatband had a glossy coating applied on it.

                As Paris Gun accurately described, original sweatbands are often edged with a thin border band, here made of cloth (… and should certainly never be of plastic !) and zig-zag sewn to the sweatband. Generally, the sweatband is machine stitched to the cap by a line running between the sweatband and the thin border band. In this case however, the sweatband is crudely (but originally) hand sewn to the cap.


                Mark<O</O
                Attached Files

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                  #38
                  mark,thanks for your inputs,I think 100% as you! the berg in question is machine stitched, what is your personal opinion of this berg with the info you have? thanks for your time manuel
                  by the way you have an excellent collection!

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Langemark
                    I think here must be put an end to a widespread belief that the presence of a gray sweatband automatically implies that the cap is a fake.
                    Hi Mark,

                    This was not stated, just that many faked Bergmuetzen show a gray sweatband, and that one should be very carefull when finding such a cap.

                    I have a private purchase Bergmuetze with a gray sweatband in my collection, so it would be kinda strange if I implied this.

                    By the way, here is a scan of the Regimental pin shown in Manuels picture.



                    Bart

                    Comment


                      #40
                      thanks bart for rk thaler pin! 4 GJ div. can you post your grey sweatband???
                      thanks !
                      take care ,manuel
                      Last edited by ManuelR; 04-03-2004, 01:51 PM.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Hi Manuel,

                        Here's the picture of my gray sweatband:



                        The backside has a paperlike backing.

                        Bart

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                          #42
                          thanks bart!! it looks very similar ,my sweatband has the same line stiching is similar but your camera is much better than mine!!!!!!!!!!!! how many mega pixels I should buy one like yours!!!!
                          I also found another cap with my makers name in an overseas cap here the scan! it is very faded!! take I will send you also a PM .regards manuel
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Manual,

                            My camera is just an old Sony Mavica (the one that uses a floppy disc). Nothing fancy, I just used the macro option.

                            Bart

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Bart, I want to reassure you that my last replies were certainly not directed against you. I simply noted some sceptical opinions about the 'questionable' gray sweatband on the discussed Bergmütze ... and I wanted to put the things right.

                              Also, I thank you for your contribution concerning the gray sweatbands on original caps.

                              Manuel, so far I can't give any conclusive opinion about your cap. Could you please post some detailed close-ups of the grommets (inside/outside), eyelets, lining, reverse of the sweatband, etc., ... ?

                              Best regards,
                              Mark
                              Last edited by Langemark; 04-04-2004, 01:27 PM. Reason: forgot something

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