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Some help with a Luft Trop cap please

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    #46
    LW trop. cap

    Do we really think a huge company like Hoffmann (Berolina) had only one ink stamp to stamp literally thousands of different caps with? Clemens Wagner boasted in a 1938 trade ad that they could provide1000 caps daily so how many could Hoffmann produce and how many stamps would they have had in various parts of their plant to stamp caps with? Rubber ink stamps would have worn out and been replaced -- and some may have come from different sources or at different times. Hoffmann didn't use just one stamp as we know their firm also used a similar stamp with "G. A. Hoffmann" in place of the trade name "Berolina."

    What confounds some is the eagle -- if it's like the one on my cap, it's longer than what we are used to seeing on sidecaps. Mine is72 mm from wing tip to wing tip. All the breast eagles I have are 82 to 85 mm from wing tip to wing tip. The eagle on a tropical sidecap is about 55 mm wing tip to wing tip but it was meant to go on a much narrower space than the wide front found on a billed field cap. WIth 44 licensed makers of insignia in Wuppertal alone -- do we really think there was only one maker of cap eagles and that every cap has to have an identical eagle or it's no good?

    Awhile back, NZ Mark posted an army tropical cap made without side panels and it was condemned as no good by some -- but wartime photos prove these caps existed and there are several other originals out there in collections. It was a cost and time cutting measure to make them quicker and with less fabric.

    Consider how many tropical caps were made during the period from 1940 to 1944. Several hundred thousand men served in N. Africa to begin with. Huge amounts of supplies (uniform items included) were sunk to the bottom of the Mediterranean. Tropical caps were worn on Sicily, Southern Italy, Southern France, Greece, the Balkans and particularly in Southern Russia in large numbers. So --- how many tropical caps were produced? Given all the troops that wore them, it could easily exceed a million caps. If there's a collector among us who has closely examined 1,000 original caps, that incredibly lucky collector has seen 1/10 th of 1% of all the caps made. The point is that none of us has seen enough caps to decide that every cap has to be alike or it's no good. There are a lot of legitimate variations from maker to maker over a period of several years and as more war souvenirs come out of attics, we get to see things that add new knowledge to our hobby.

    The cap I have so similar to Ben's came from an old collection and the previous owner got it from a veteran. It's a fact that very, vary few LW personnel were issued tropical billed field caps which makes them very, very rare indeed. Though dated 1941, they may never have been worn in N. Africa. They many have been issued in very limited numbers in Italy or Sicily or elsewhere. A FJ veteran who stayed with us 5 years ago told me some officers and NCOs in his unit in Tunisia were the only ones who wore billed field caps and he thought those were private purchase ones -- but this is just one man's experience and he was there at the end of the campaign, not the beginning. In his unit, like the vast majority of LW enlisted personnel, he was only issued a tropical Fliegermutze.

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      #47
      The above makes a great deal of sense - even today the same clothing items in big retailer outlets can be supplied by factories with a host of minor variations in material, colour and design between batches. With wartime supply difficulties it would be logical to assume this type of situation would have been magnified -leading to wide variation in finished product.

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        #48
        Ralph - What you wrote makes a lot of sense to me. I think it's important to temper quick conclusions on any novel portion of cap design - especially reflecting on the points you mentioned. Sometimes it just boils down to a subjective, gut feeling of a cap's authenticity, which can be tough for all of us to swallow at one time or another.

        J-

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          #49
          The only billed tropical field cap which was ordered by the Luftwaffe was the "Meyer" cap. This means any maker marked "M41," (except for private purchase examples) is a big problem for me.

          Do not like the details of these grommets, they look "crafted" and unnatural in how they were spread.

          IMHO the eagle is a fake and artificially aged.

          Of course, this is only my opinion, and I'm not commenting to further argue these points, we all have our own collecting criteria. The cap does not fit within mine.
          Esse Quam Videri

          Comment


            #50
            Here is an eagle from an M41 which will appear in more detail in Vol.2. I do like this one.
            Attached Files
            Esse Quam Videri

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              #51
              Another I like very much. These caps both have false flaps, and I think the ones Jos posted may as well, the photos are too over exposed in the flap areas to know for certain.
              Attached Files
              Esse Quam Videri

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by BenVK View Post
                I have stated no opinion of it yet.
                Sir, IMHO,

                B. N. Singer

                Comment


                  #53
                  Hi Ralph

                  Great to see You sharing your knowledge with us again. What You mention makes good sense to me also. Here is a link to an earlier thread which shows your cap. See posts #4 through # 11.

                  http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ead.php?t=8592

                  Heia Safari
                  Tim

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                    #54
                    Thanks for all the opinions both public and private.

                    I was 50/50 about this cap at the start and still am 50/50 with it in hand. On that basis, I've decided to return it. It's a gamble I'm not prepared to take.

                    My biggest concern is the eagle and it's application. The embroidery is just not up to the standard that I would want to see compared with the hundreds I've now looked at to compare. I'm not saying it's fake, there are many oddball eagles out there and probably plenty more not documented yet. I just don't feel comfortable with it. My other issue is that both the eagle and cockade have an unnatural toning IMO and I fear some fake ageing has been applied.

                    I do like the cap itself but not enough to overlook these other concerns.

                    Cheers
                    Ben

                    Comment


                      #55
                      In regards to whether this style of cap without the false flaps existed, I attach some photos of the Grand Sasso operation for your consideration.

                      In the series of famous photos, there is one guy who seems to be wearing such a cap. This is SS Obersturmfuhrer Otto (Peter) Schwerdt. Whether it's a private purchase or an SS issued cap with Luft insignia I don't know. I find it interesting none the less.
                      Attached Files

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                        #56
                        Closer view.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by BenVK View Post
                          an SS issued cap with Luft insignia
                          That would be my assumption giving Schwerdt's rank and service.
                          Esse Quam Videri

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by BenVK View Post
                            In the series of famous photos, there is one guy who seems to be wearing such a cap. This is SS Obersturmfuhrer Otto (Peter) Schwerdt.
                            Cant comment on the cap - but I can comment this: This is in fact Karl Radl, Skorzeny´s "right hand".

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Are you sure?

                              Numerous sources I've read have this guy identified as being Radl.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Same face...I think you are correct.

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