SS M43 Panzer Cap

[90th Light]

Please be careful of your claims Sir; where did I say this? And care not I whom you choose to argue with.

B. N. Singer

Then what is the implication of your post number 31 ?

Chris

[BenVK]

Chris, your pm box is full.

[90th Light]

Always willing to take a risk I will show you my example of the heavy debated SS M43 with HBT lining and trap...My camera is not the best but hope this will do for now.

The cap is definately used. There is much nap loss all over and easy to see when compared with the inside of the flaps. No mistake about that. Also the liner shows clear grease marks typical for being worn. And the trap shows honest wear too. Also, IMO the construction is good. I always had a very good feeling about this one.

Erik

Hello Erik,

thank you for posting your example I appreciate others getting on board with what they have.

I do not fully understand BenVK's reference to "liner double stitched" so may be he might explain that a bit more. Does he mean the stitching at the top of the liner ?

Over the years that I have looked at this type of cap when ever one has come up, I have noticed that the HBT at the top of the liner can run in a horizontal or a vertical direction. The ones on my caps run in the opposite direction to yours which I think looks nicer but I do note think it is a big issue. This would be decided by the manufacturer at the time and just how many liners thay were cutting out of one piece of cloth. Keep in mind that they would be trying to get as many liners as they could and may be one runing in your direction represents a liner top cut from an end corner of the bolt.

The Italian made wooden buttons are a nice feature of your cap and not that easy to find.

Would it be possible to post a clear close up of the trap so we can see if it is hand applied or not. Ben and Lenny seem to have concerns on this point.

Many thanks,

Chris

[90th Light]

Chris, your pm box is full.

Sorry Ben, I will send you an email right now,

Chris

[Zauberflöte]

[QUOTE=BenVK;4243360]I don't ever recal seeing a liner double stitched like this before.


.....QUOTE]

I have to agree, but could be a good sign IMO. I like a lot of features in this cap (It. wool in combination with the buttons) + construction..although the trap might be a replacement (the apparence of being machine stitched).

Any other thoughts?
F

[Panzergrenadiere71]

There's nothing wrong with the double line of stitching and from the pics I like the cap more then I don't.
Application of the insigna is another problem

[90th Light]

From what I have found out about this "double line of stitching" is it not a good sign in a cap because it holds in place an internal sweat band behind the liner where the liner joins the cap.

Some collectors do not like M43's which do not have this feature so would consider this a real plus for the cap or have a got this wrong.

In my experience some original M43 do have it but not always and some do not,

Chris

[Lenny W]

Hello Erik,

thank you for posting your example I appreciate others getting on board with what they have.

I do not fully understand BenVK's reference to "liner double stitched" so may be he might explain that a bit more. Does he mean the stitching at the top of the liner ?

Over the years that I have looked at this type of cap when ever one has come up, I have noticed that the HBT at the top of the liner can run in a horizontal or a vertical direction. The ones on my caps run in the opposite direction to yours which I think looks nicer but I do note think it is a big issue. This would be decided by the manufacturer at the time and just how many liners thay were cutting out of one piece of cloth. Keep in mind that they would be trying to get as many liners as they could and may be one runing in your direction represents a liner top cut from an end corner of the bolt.

The Italian made wooden buttons are a nice feature of your cap and not that easy to find.

Would it be possible to post a clear close up of the trap so we can see if it is hand applied or not. Ben and Lenny seem to have concerns on this point.

Many thanks,

Chris

more than just the insignia would cause me to pause ! how about some pics of those caps Chris ,our main focus here was the black panzer m-43 cap was it not ?

[Erik]

Thanks for all the comments Chris and all others. I am always trying to keep an open mind.

I always thought the irregular stitching of the insignia was because it was applied with a manually operated sewing machine. Hence the slight differences in stitching. But I suppose it could have been done by hand postwar.

I invite others to also show their M43 HBT traps!

Erik

[90th Light]

more than just the insignia would cause me to pause ! how about some pics of those caps Chris ,our main focus here was the black panzer m-43 cap was it not ?

The type of black Panzer M43 which started this thread is put down constantly on this forum because it has a trap, an HBT lining and we are told by Billbert a reputation for being made in the 1990's and appearing in numbers at shows in American or some where at that time and beyond.

and hello Lenny,

I thought you would be at the MAX

There are several issues this raises;

1/ Do period SS M43 caps have traps and the answer is clearly yes and they are found on field grey SS M43 and the black Panzer SS M43

2/ Do period SS N43 caps have HBT linings and the answer is clearly yes and such a lining material can be found in both the field grey version and the black Panzer version

3/ Have original SS M43 caps been found in unissued condition with the traps, HBT lining or some examples even having both these characteristics and the answer is again yes they have in both field grey and the Panzer black version.

The questions raised by this thread for we collectors are much broader than just the specific cap which started it,

Chris

[90th Light]

Thanks for all the comments Chris and all others. I am always trying to keep an open mind.

I always thought the irregular stitching of the insignia was because it was applied with a manually operated sewing machine. Hence the slight differences in stitching. But I suppose it could have been done by hand postwar.

I invite others to also show their M43 HBT traps!

Erik

Hello Erik,

A manually operated sewing machine is a very good point and one we all need to consider in our evaluation of this. How tight does the trap sit on the cap when you give it a good pull outwards ?

Chris

[Lenny W]

Thanks for all the comments Chris and all others. I am always trying to keep an open mind.

I always thought the irregular stitching of the insignia was because it was applied with a manually operated sewing machine. Hence the slight differences in stitching. But I suppose it could have been done by hand postwar.

I invite others to also show their M43 HBT traps!

Erik

thank you Eric but the pic isnt to clear

[B. N. Singer]

I don't ever recal seeing a liner double stitched like this before.

Plus, Just noticed that the weave on the top lining is going 90 degrees to the norm.

What does that all mean? don't ask me!

Maybe Bryon can break his own rules and go into some details for us this time.
Pretty please!

Sir, I could entertain a doubt about the example; now, what in particular about the double stitching (area of the hat) do you think I might be able to expand on?
As always, with regards,
Bryon

[Chosen_Man]

Today i will post some better more detailed pictures of my cap so we can get this back on track.

Regards, CM.

[Lenny W]

here is one almost identical to the cap Eric posted ,still waiting for those pics Chris

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=457721