Sun helmet discussion for DAK Historians

[Bond]

'Dutch' pith helmet pic.

Hi, I was outbid on this pic recently and I hope the new owner does not mind me posting it, but it shows a helmet that looks like a 'dutch' manufactured helmet?

thanks, Jerry

[Peter_Suciu]

Hi, I was outbid on this pic recently and I hope the new owner does not mind me posting it, but it shows a helmet that looks like a 'dutch' manufactured helmet?

thanks, Jerry

That is an interesting picture, but I don't think the use of this style of helmets by the Germans needs to be debated. The photo still doesn't show the origin. We can't see inside the helmet, so it could be "Dutch" made or it could be "South African."

Actually the brim is larger than the other examples in those period photos. I think this version is more likely to be truly South African. Compare to my WWII era South African helmet here:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...n_ilh_big1.jpg

[Bond]

Hi Peter, I just thought it was a good pic to see, as you said we know they were used. Interesting if it is a South African example, rather than the 'dutch' made type.

Thanks, Jerry

[Tim O'Keefe]

Nice photo Jerry, any idea where/when it was taken ? Perhaps Tunisia with all the vegetation.

Agree with Peter, this looks like a SA sun helmet not one of the Dutch made ones. A number of these were captured at Tobruk in June '42. But not to be confused with the Dutch ones issued in Germany to the 15 Pz Div during Easter '41. Do to the lack of shields as well as the larger brim.

[Bond]

Nice photo Jerry, any idea where/when it was taken ? Perhaps Tunisia with all the vegetation.

Agree with Peter, this looks like a SA sun helmet not one of the Dutch made ones. A number of these were captured at Tobruk in June '42. But not to be confused with the Dutch ones issued in Germany to the 15 Pz Div during Easter '41. Do to the lack of shields as well as the larger brim.

Hi Tim, the seller did not list a precise location, he said soldiers cooking in the desert and he did not provide a date.

Jerry

[John Hodgin]

Perhaps Tunisia with all the vegetation.

Agree Tim, most probably Tunisia.

[Peter_Suciu]

The mystery grows. I just received my latest purchase. This is a South African "Polo" helmet, but I'm wondering whether that term is really accurate of all the SA helmets.

This helmet has the flash of the 1st South African Division sewn on the side. The more interesting part is the stamp inside, which says "SAPHI" for South African Pith Helmet Industries. There is also a stamp that says "Petoria." What strikes me as interesting is that this stamp looks much like the stamp from the supposed helmet sourced from "Holland." The maker stamps (despite having different locations) look surprisingly similar.

The other unique thing I notice is that the South African helmets have the arrow in the U. Could this be "Union of South Africa?" The Canadian made ones have a C with an arrow inside, which I believe is for Hawley Canada, who made the helmets. This C with arrow is in Canadian used helmets as well as SA used helmets.

This is very interesting. This helmet would appear to be the same model as the supposed Dutch-made version. All I can assume is that maybe SAPHI had a branch in Holland, or SAPHI was supplying the helmets.

I wish there were some archives to dig into this. What also strikes me as odd is that this helmet is dated 1943. The British sourced helmets I have are dated 1942, and the Canadian ones 1942 and 1943. So the alternative thought again is that these were pre-war sourced from Holland, that ended and they made them in the UK, Canada and in South Africa.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...thAfrican1.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...thAfrican2.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...thAfrican3.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...thAfrican4.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...thAfrican5.jpg

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Peter

Nice helmet. It looks to have the chinstrap and the flash added postwar. The flash does not display the wear that the material lining the lower dome does from the photos.

The helmets worn by the 15th Pz Div in Afrika appear in photos dated Easter weekend 13/14 April '41 in the studio in Germany. Then again during the march from Tripoli to Tobruk in May 41.

The stamp is similar to the Breda Dutch stamp, so agree its likely that the first ones were taken in 1940 in Holland and supplied to the DAK do to shortages on the tropenhelm made in Germany. While the later versions are from the Allied makers.

Thanks for showing and keep up the good work on this question...

[Peter_Suciu]

Hi Peter

Nice helmet. It looks to have the chinstrap and the flash added postwar. The flash does not display the wear that the material lining the lower dome does from the photos.

The flash is absolutely period in my opinion. It looks better in the photo than on the helmet. The threads have the same dirt as the puggaree, and there are some stains that seem to end right at the flash. I don't want to do anything to damage the flash but it looks like the stains do end at it.

The liner shows wear, but the chinstrap is probably a post war replacement. In fact I don't know if the chinstrap is even SA. It is unlike the other SA ones I've seen.

The liner is the other item of note. The British made helmets featured the liners that aren't removable and those have strings that pull the liner in several directions.

My colleague Stuart Bates and I did a LOT of research on the UK helmet liners. The British made polo helmets utilize the Charles Owen & Co. system, while the SA made helmet uses the Vero Detachable Headband.

There are far less of the Charles Own liners seen in Wolsely helmets but almost all the British made polo helmets use this liner.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the added info about the flash and different liners. Thats great to have the original flash from the SA unit. The "U" does stand for SA made, and the Commonwealth had a different letter for each different Countrys maker.

Here is post # 44 from Sprogcollector,

Gents:
The helmet shown below is a made in South Africa. The "U" with the small arrow above it is a wartime marking used on South African equipment. The arrow is called the 'broad arrow' mark and appears on all British/Commonwealth Army uniforms and equipment.

A larger version of the "U" containing the arrow is upside down and to the upper right of the 1943 date. This is the more commonly seen version of this stamp

Prior to 1943, naval forces would have had an Admiralty anchor stamp.

Brits have the arrow alone; Canada has the arrow within the "C"; India above the "I"; between "AF" for Austrlian Forces; between "NZ" for New Zealand, etc.

Now some more info.

The first SA unit to arrive in Afrika was the 4th SA Motorized Regt in June '41. Next was the 2nd SA Inf Div in July followed by the 1st SA Inf Div in Nov '41. There were a few SA armored cars before this but am sure these were operated by the English recon units. Unfortunately a large number of SA troops were captured in Tobruk the following year June 23 '42. Which gave the DAK even more sunhelmets than they needed at the time. But these were not the helmets in the 15th Pz Div before departure to Afrika in late April/May '41.

I too am surprised that there has not been more info on these Dutch helmets that most likely were intended for the SA forces, but used by the Germans instead....

[NZMark]

Just in the door this morning...germaine to the subject.
Mark.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Mark

Great photo. Looks to be the 8th Pz Regt, 2nd Bn HQ Co, 15th Pz Div DAK. Late May '41. Notice the small upper pockets denoting the early 1st pattern tunics.
Thanks for posting it.

Tim

[Peter_Suciu]

I have continued to do research into this subject and recently I found some interesting photos and illustrations... of polo helmets from the 1930s. I found that polo was an Olympic sport in 1920, 1924, 1928, 1932 and 1936.

Five teams played in 1936 including the UK, Argentina, Hungary, Germany and Mexico. Argentina upset the British team. And polo was set to expand to 12 teams in 1940 but the Olympics of course didn't take place.

Now, I did some more research, and Stuart Bates and I noted this fact in the book The Wolseley Helmet From Omdurman to El Alamin" that the SA military stopped using the Wolseley helmet prior to WWII and adopted actual polo helmets. Polo was also a popular game in South Africa in the 1920s and 1930s despite growing anti-UK feelings. The game actually transcended nationality.

I found that polo helmets were often khaki in color to hide the dirt. Hence the original South African polo helmets had the same color as military helmets... AND the main manufacturer of South African polo helmets was South African Pith Helmet Industries Ltd. The firm is still around today and makes the SA ballistic helmets. The company made pith helmets for the military and civilian markets.

The SA military adopted the polo helmets because these were better for use in bush warfare whereas the Wolseley and other British style sun helmets were too big and bulky.

The British firms also made similar polo helmets and there seems to be two main styles. The one that is know widely known as the "SA polo helmet" and a British polo helmet with four rubberized vents. Interesting I have one of the latter that came from Ethiopia and was reportedly used by the forces who liberated Ethiopia from the Italians in 1940-41. I have a photograph that shows this type of helmet was used by the Ethiopian forces in exile.

So my theory - and it is just that a theory - is that the helmets the Germans used that have been identified as "Dutch army" over the years are actually polo helmets. Polo was already growing in interest in the Netherlands in the 1930s and there were polo clubs. The helmets are harder and stiffer than most sun helmets and the Dutch were using other patterns in their East Indies colonies, so I've long dismissed the possibility that those helmets were every for the Dutch army.

But for polo it might make sense. The helmets had to be stiff enough to protect the wearer's head if it was hit by a ball, or if the rider fell. And it cannot be disputed that similar pattern helmets were produced in the UK and South Africa. Why? Because in the 1930s these were for polo clubs! The Germans needed equipment for those first troops heading to Africa so why not polo helmets?

Again, just a theory, but here are some photos:

Argentine polo team 1936 Olympics with similar style helmet:


Illustration of English polo club from 1920s - notice the white helmets are also similar:


Finally, a modern polo helmet - again similar design:

[kapitein]

Peter,

I just read this highly interesting thread and was always quite surprised that these SA style helmets were called Dutch as these were never worn by Dutch army, or in its colonies like Surinam or Indonesia.
(We wore straw (slouch type) hats in the jungle!)

Looking at the superb 1st model green DAK pith made by Dutch company MOL-Breda with its manufacturer stamp in this thread (ref link and post 100) I saw that that SA pith pictured in the book (post 107) has exactly this same stamp; '' * MOL NV - BREDA - HOLLAND * ''. I am pretty sure about this!
This well known Dutch company most probably made these hats for export and that they were captured or even manufactured for the Germans before MOL started to produce the German 1st model DAK design.

It looks like a polo helmet but polo was never big in Holland and MOL was a large manufacturer of military equipment. I am sure they made these SA piths not for sports but for export to (SA) military.
Because of the MOL NV stamp they are called Dutch...!

Kapitein

[Peter_Suciu]

Kapitein-
I did find that the British company Charles Owen & Company designed an improved liner for the Wolseley helmet, and this liner is in the British helmets that are sometimes called the "SA Polo" helmets - and here is a strange twist. Charles Owen & Company are around today and do make... polo helmets!

Also, I did find out that while polo wasn't played in the Netherlands, it was played in the Dutch East Indies and furthermore, polo was played in India and British officers there did wear Bombay Bowler pith helmets. So there is a connection between polo and sun helmets.

But I'm happy to find out more about MOL NV - BREDA - HOLLAND - so now here is my question, did they license the helmet from the South Africans? And while I previously offered the theory that the helmets could have been for export to South Africa, the problem with this line of thinking is that SAPHI (South African Pith Helmet Industries) was already making sun helmets for the military and civilian sales. The company also made polo helmets. This is again why I keep circling back to that possibility.

So the question in this case, why would the South Africans need to import helmets when they were already making their own. Of course the strange thing is that the British made a version and the Canadians made a version. This part remains a puzzle, especially as there weren't that many SA troops.

As always, I welcome any thoughts on this one.

Cheers,
Peter