M 43 Panzer Cap

[90th Light]

That magazine cover just might work

The lastest version of "Punk" when non-PC is suddenly in fashion as opposed to PC which seems to be the norm for now.

Good effort, Chris

[90th Light]

Christian,
can you let us know if Scott has offered your friend his money back. I think we all want to follow this and make sure it does not go the way of the Jaques cap. I am sure it will be made right. It is a point of character, collectors with something bad have to dump it and take the hit, not foist it on another unsuspecting collector. If it a mistake, fine, but as soon as we find out, we make good for it and correct the error. I would like to hear what is going on in this respect.

Gerard why do you not start a poll and then we could all see if there is an overwhelming consensus that these M43 Panzer caps are in fact bad.

Is everybody in agreement that the caps are 100% bad or are we speculating because it is not something we have seen or have in our collections ?

Personally I am on the fence with these ones and would like a hands on to be able to say more.

Are we happy with the trap for starters ?

Should we judge least we be judged ?

Chris

[John Hodgin]

Personally I am on the fence with these ones and would like a hands on to be able to say more.

How many would you like to buy and what are you willing to pay for each? Can round you up a good half dozen. Can get you the same in SS 43s with similar characteristics. Some of both are usually at every SOS and Max.

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

Should we judge least we be judged ?

Chris

If someone is ripping people off, we shouldn't judge them? Because they are "just different from us" and " don't know any better"? You're right, I guess it's OK.

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

Personally I am on the fence with these ones and would like a hands on to be able to say more.

Chris

For me, this is the most telling line. Are you serious?

[BenVK]

Hey Gerard,
Chris has every right to voice his own opinion, whether right or wrong. He is not the seller of said caps and therefore is not the witch in this hunt.

Why don't you do the forum a service and start a thread about M43's starting with the ones that have passed through your hands, good and bad in your opinion with reasons why. It's all very well shouting "FAKE" and ridiculing people who don't agree with you on these threads but that doesn't benefit anyone.

Having been a dealer for a number of years, I'm sure you have knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes better than all of us. You go to the shows, you talk with other dealers, you get offered items from all other the world, yes? So, how about starting that thread? with examples and explain why the bad ones are bad, who are the people making them or trying to sell them and what we should look out for.
In other words, how about giving something back to all the collectors who have bought from you and pay your bills rather than taking the piss out of them?

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

Hey Gerard,
Chris has every right to voice his own opinion, whether right or wrong. He is not the seller of said caps and therefore is not the witch in this hunt.

Why don't you do the forum a service and start a thread about M43's starting with the ones that have passed through your hands, good and bad in your opinion with reasons why. It's all very well shouting "FAKE" and ridiculing people who don't agree with you on these threads but that doesn't benefit anyone.

Having been a dealer for a number of years, I'm sure you have knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes better than all of us. You go to the shows, you talk with other dealers, you get offered items from all other the world, yes? So, how about starting that thread? with examples and explain why the bad ones are bad, who are the people making them or trying to sell them and what we should look out for.
In other words, how about giving something back to all the collectors who have bought from you and pay your bills rather than taking the piss out of them?

That's a bunch of self righteous crap. I help out on here all the time and almost zero dealers do that. Why not do some research here on the forum and you can see plain as day what a real m43 cap looks like. I think your assinine comment about giving something back is totally uncalled for. I am trying to help 2 people here who have lost about $5,000 on total crap caps. i guess some would call that giving back. In Chris's case, he has absolutely zero knowledge, yet he's willing to say this cap has a chance, thus giving the seller an out. ridiculous!

[BenVK]

So my comment about giving something back apart from just saying this is fake and that is fake is uncalled for yet taking the piss out of Chris and saying that "he has absolutely zero knowledge" plus saying my comment is "bunch of self righteous crap" is not out of order??!

And I'm sorry Gerad but what's totaly ridiculous is trying to infer that Chris being on the fence about a particular cap or caps is "giving the seller an out" As if Chris' or any one particular person's opinion is going to sway the seller to refund the buyer!!

However, what might help, as I've said, is if you divulge some of your knowledge about who might be or have been peddling these "crap caps" so we can trace them back and prove for frikin once and for all that they are 101% bad and therefore give the seller no choice at all BUT to admit that he sold a fake cap. Don't you see that? What might help as well is if the personal friends of that seller out pressure on that seller to do the right thing? I'm sure that Jacques in particular would appreciate that sort of help.

[Gerard/Relic Hunter]

OK BEN! Whatever you say. I am sure the management of the forum wants to close this thread down and sweep it under the carpet like the last one. Starting trouble on it, helps them to do that. What have you contributed to it, other than another "I don't know...."??? Well, I can tell you, it's bad. And it's not even a good fake, it's a really awful fake. Maybe I should do the research for you and Chris, since neither of you seem inclined to do it. All I have to do is look up the thread with the original M43 cap and then paste the links here for you. BUT!!! you WILL have to look at the links.

Sometimes I fear it's just a big waste of time, like trying to explain to a blind man what color look like.

LOOK AT THE CAP THAT STARTED THIS THREAD! THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GOOD ABOUT IT! Are we looking at the same cap??? What great points on it am I missing? If you wouldn't mind "giving back", perhaps you and Chris will educate me?? I am willing to learn, what am I missing??

[BenVK]

No, you still don't get it do you!!

I am not defending the cap. I don't think it's original either. But, I have no proof. Don't talk to me about research either. I spent hours and hours of research on the Halfar caps all on the behalf of Jacques and the forum. I was gutted because all that research never really lead to anything conclusive apart from the dodgy soviet stamps. Why is that? It's because people out there know damn well were certain fake caps are coming from but don't want talk about it.

That's where you come in. You must know, much more than us, from all your contacts in the dealer world of closed doors, the truth about a lot of this. So, when you come on here, it's a choice of putting your collectors hat on (pardon the pun) and giving us the gen to benefit us all or keeping the dealers hat on and keep us guessing.

That's why you and me have never seen eye to eye on this forum. I beleive you could offer us so much more than you do but you choose not to.

No need to lock the thread. It's a healthy discussion IMO and nothing personal.

[Sayle F]

Fakes

Too much money to be made Ben, where the fakes come from and who the people are that make them or have them made will be a guarded secret for a long time I am afraid.

[John Huff]

There are advanced collectors on this forum who would snap up an original Panzer M43 in seconds for $3500 or even more. Gene knows this, Mr. Singer knows this; Gerard; John Hodgin; etc. This argument would be mute. Both "owners" of the cap would have been contacted from day one of this thread with offers to buy. The cap is a fake. Follow my original advice...

[Gene]

Funny you mention this John. A very serious Panzer collector who's been after my Panzer M43 just offered me. . . are you ready. . . $900 for my cap.

[Leroy]

Deleted

[90th Light]

May-be I do not know much and may-be I know a lot

The wisest man in a King's court is often the Jester hence why you cut their tongues out

but I know one thing for sure that if you want to learn and you are told that something is right or something is wrong then you ask why and you keep asking why and why not until you fully understand. This is called a thirst for knowledge. Now combine that with an intense attention to every detail.

what you do not do is just simply accept the opinion of any one person who claims to be an expert. I listen but at the end of the day I always go away and do my own homework as well.

Then again if I was a dealer I would want to paint an image that I knew it all so they would all buy from me and pay my crazy prices. Called self-motivation for profit maximization.

so should we have a poll to see just how bad this Panzer M43 is ?

Chris