Von PAPEN's DIPLOMATIC hat

[paul s.]

[ATTACH]1063675[/ATTACH]
Sirs I would respectfully submit that this is how we should expect a very senior,very visible diplomatic officials cap to look like.
Regards
Paul

[stonemint]

Paul--are you trying to blind us with those hats?!

[paul s.]

Blinded by the truth,brother

[Richard P]

Paul S,

Gorgeous caps, thanks for your generosity in sharing them.

I'm leaving the caps originality to you guys, but I also went back and viewed the old thread. The current owner at that time said von Papen's family crest was hand painted on paper. My only comment is, that is how I have seen them on other high ranking visors that were definitely original. No judgment implied.

[mjfur]

Paul,

If these Senior Officials dressed to the "Nines", why is this wreath/cockade backing so crudely cut out? Did HG get this one at WalMart?

Regards,
Mike

[paul s.]

Mike
Have you inspected the quality of the embroidery and work on Goring caps?
I suggest that you do so before commenting on the quality of these types of caps.
I would also respectfully suggest that you inspect the quality of known examples of diplomatic uniforms.Is it possible that the ambassador wore lousy quality uniforms?I guess.But it is highly unlikely.
I appreciate the debate
Regards
Paul

[stonemint]

Paul is correct--the senior Diplo/Govtl Officials uniforms were always of the highest quality. The gold-pipes are extremely rare, and hardly ever come on to the market publicly. Further, I can recall (off the top of my head) only one real Govt. Officials on the market in the last 2 years.

There are still a lot of very high-quality fakes out there. IMHO, the fakes of these from the 85-95 period were superior to anything they were doing on SS Officer visors. Wanna know why you rarely see real GO/Dipl insignia offered for sale? A lot of them ended up on these superfakes. Like I said, Dipl/GO was all the rage back then--daggers, swords, tunics, insignia and especially visors because of the quality, design (the "big boid") and the elite social status of the wearers. Trouble is, too many people got burned by these super-fakes of that era.

BTW, this hat on the cover of Angolias book is a superfake that fooled even him (it was dumped on ebay around 2000):

[mjfur]

Mike
Have you inspected the quality of the embroidery and work on Goring caps?
I suggest that you do so before commenting on the quality of these types of caps.
I would also respectfully suggest that you inspect the quality of known examples of diplomatic uniforms.Is it possible that the ambassador wore lousy quality uniforms?I guess.But it is highly unlikely.
I appreciate the debate
Regards
Paul

Didn't realize it was a debate.

Yes I have inspected the quality of the embroidery on the HG caps.
Thats why I said, The wreath/cockade backing of the one I posted is somewhat lacking compared to his others. It's certainly an un-even cut around it's edges. Not the highest of quality one would expect. No?

Why? Who knows? Just goes to show even the Head Muckity Mucks sometimes had a less than perfect cap.

Regards,
Mike

[paul s.]

I agree with you ,Mike,the cut out nature of the wreath /eagle is one of those anomalies that only Hermann can answer.And that's pretty unlikely at this point.However,since you have had a hands on on the caps I am sure that you will agree that the cut out pattern aside,the eagle,wreath and cap itself are of the highest quality.Pretty much what you would expect.
I guess that it it just a rule of thumb that was taught to me a very long time ago by someone I really respect in this hobby and that is that there is a certain quality of workmanship that you would expect if this was someone who had lunch with the fuhrer.With the crazy cost of the good stuff today it is a rule i follow.i could be wrong
Regards
Paul

[Leroy]

Hi, Mike,
On the HG cap, please take some comfort in knowing that this was an "outdoors - let's go ride a horse or shoot something" cap, not really meant for formal dress occasions. In person, it is a work of art, although time, bad storage by the vet, etc. have certainly diminished its appearance. I think that when it was new, it looked a lot better.
Regards,
Leroy

[adlerfan53]

Oh a debate? Really, where? Not saying anything about high ranking members of the party dressing to the nines. Even though the grand exulted leader of them didn't. I remember a post about a certain tunic that was passed over by many at a show because of it being plain and not too attractive. It was purchased at a decent price and boom, AH tunic. My comment was about the "assumption" aspect of the reply. Assumption can cost someone a great bit of money or can give somone an awesome find. Relative to the discussion of these particular visors...I have my doubts about them as well. Especially the green band around the one visor. That's what's wonderful about our hobby, we can sit around and discuss somthing till we're blue in the face and along the way we will learn somthing new. I now digress....Cheers

[paul s.]

Agreed,my friend.There are exceptions to every rule.
Regards
Paul

[mjfur]

Hi, Mike,
On the HG cap, please take some comfort in knowing that this was an "outdoors - let's go ride a horse or shoot something" cap, not really meant for formal dress occasions. In person, it is a work of art, although time, bad storage by the vet, etc. have certainly diminished its appearance. I think that when it was new, it looked a lot better.
Regards,
Leroy

Leroy,

Thanks for the "comfort", slept like a baby last night.

I was not picking on your visor. Like you say, an "outdoors example", just a little rough around it's edges thats all. Still a great hat!

Regards,
Mike

[stonemint]

Guys, check out the thread on the political forum titled "Guidance on Diplomatic Insignia"--these pieces of insignia were outed as fakes, but the thread has a very interesting twist at the end:

[Z19]

The only reason I am selling them is that I have changed from visors to Allach as there seems to be a better future in that area, and the items have a beauty in themselves and can be displayed without upsetting the neighbours!

Piss on the neighbors!!! Thats one advantage I have being from the South...everybody expects us to be rednecks who are a little less than politically correct....and I like it that way!! Alex