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First impressions are that the second one looks authentic. Not sure what to make of the first, looks very nicely made but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

**Richard P** · 10-20-2008, 02:14 PM

If the first one is von Papen's then that would be his family crest which is often found in high ranking visors, and not a manufacturers logo. I won't make a call on the cap, but I don't recall many fakes with a family crest.

**stonemint** · 10-20-2008, 02:38 PM

They were both posted on the forum before, and were owned by a forum member. This is the interior of the gray one:

Attached Files

Dip%2520cap%2520interior.jpg (35.9 KB, 400 views)

**paul s.** · 10-20-2008, 04:34 PM

Green capband on a diplo visor?

**paul s.** · 10-20-2008, 04:42 PM

[ATTACH]1063514[/ATTACH]
would expect to see eagle of at least this quality.I would like to see more detailed pics of the bird
Regards
paul

**steiner99** · 10-20-2008, 04:46 PM

Bouth cap's of HH are 100% fake. You can see the important pics on an old thread.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237728&highlight=papen

What a mistake for the buyer.

Best,
steiner99

**wessel** · 10-20-2008, 07:47 PM

I am the seller of these caps, and unlike some others have had hands on experience of them. Both were bought by me from HH autions...the von Papen one had a large private photo album of him as the next item in the sale, which I could not afford to buy... did a faker make a one-off cap and then wait to lay his hands on a particular family album and put the two together?

As to the Grey visor, one respondent thinks its OK, one thinks it's a fake. I've been collecting caps for 10 years, less than some of you, I know, but still with some experience. Yes, I have been caught out, and know it;perhaps I have also been caught out and am yet to find out, but that cap seems good to me. If anyone out there has bought either of these and are not convinced about them then send them back to HH.

The only reason I am selling them is that I have changed from visors to Allach as there seems to be a better future in that area, and the items have a beauty in themselves and can be displayed without upsetting the neighbours!

**adlerfan53** · 10-20-2008, 08:25 PM

I know the possibility exists that these visors are not authentic. What bothers me is making a judgement on what one would "expect" to see in a certain persons visor etc. Just look at AH and his keeping it simple approach to his own uniforms and medals. Maybe Von Pappen was keeping it simple for one of his visors. An accurate close up photo of this visor in wear would be all the proof I would need for an accurate appraisal of this visor. I don't know a ton about visors yet but I do know the difference between speculation and proof. Just my two cents here. No intention of offending anyone.

**paul s.** · 10-20-2008, 09:04 PM

The "what one expects" is not as complicated a statement as it sounds.First,there is an assumption that certain high leaders might be in the photographic forefront consisting of that these were the officials who might have been invited to a ceremonial or congratulatory dinner with Hitler.Those invited would have been dressed to the nines.They were dining or celebrating with the fuhrer.Do you really think that they would not have purchased the finest that they could afford for the occassion?The answer is almost rhetorical.What I expect is that a big wig,especially one on ceremonial rather than combat detail would absolutely be dressed to the nines.
As to the high quality embroidery,it was readily availabale for the price and there is no reason to believe that von Papen bought his insignia at Walmart to save a few bucks.These men were,in their minds,gods.What they wanted was theirs for the taking.I don't think that they took the cr*p

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Von PAPEN's DIPLOMATIC hat

Von PAPEN's DIPLOMATIC hat

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