artillery crusher

[djpool]

There are so many comments that need responding to in this thread it is not practical to copy them all in one post.

I submit the following observations:

1. Can anyone give me an example of an Imperial era cap that had a dark green band and red piping....I have never heard of one in 35 years or so of studying Imperial feldgrau uniforms...I think the it is unlikely that this cap is imperial or even Weimar...in origin as the dark blue green was only adopted in 1935!

2. As for being put together from parts...I doubt it. A leather visor this correct in age, wear, size and design would have been the devil to find.I tend to believe a series of repairs some period and some later.

3. The rust spot is hard to explain (for me at least) it could be from a metal eagle but I dont think that any were made from ferrious metal...maybe I'm wrong. It seems too small in pattern for a cokade and it is not Imperial (IMO) and there is no sign of attachement in the center of the spot....

4. I disagree with djpool that no advanced visor collector would want this cap. I think that every ADVANCED visor collector should want this cap and that novices and casual visor collectors should stick to the textbook cookie cutter material and left over unused stock examples as they stir less controversy and offer a "safer" place to the less experienced.

5. Nice cap that was actually there.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment. I wish I could add some words of wisdom but visors are not my strong suit.I just happened to like the way the hat looked. the only facts I have are- except for adding the eagle and partially or totally sewing the wreath this is how my friend got it.I believe the visor is original to the hat. The restitch job is old-whether its 1960s old or 1940s old who knows. Its a faith thing I guess.

Someone mentioned the fading on the green band and piping. There is fading but not as distinctive as the grey green top.Here are 2 pics-still difficult to see even without flash.

Green band.

[djpool]

piping

[SgtB]

Nice cap that was actually there.

I agree, just not in this configuration.

I know that the Heer adopted the bottlegreen badgecloth in the mid-30's, but I never knew they invented it. That's good to know. In any case, I wasn't really thinking 'military' anyway. I was leaning more towards the 'Stahlhelm' or any one of the other para-military organizations with the millions of totally non-standardized, non-textbook varieties of caps. This may explain the former presence of a badge with a ferrous content or a pinback which left rust on the cloth in such a manner. I can't think of any TR badge that would, especially military.

The cap has many issues which need to be explained IMO. First of all, the crown has been force-faded, or bleached. It is not at all natural. Why? Do you really believe that it was done with tablets while in the service of the DAK? I don't. More like it wasn't the proper shade of feldgrau to pass as a Heer artillery alter-art, so it had to be corrected. Have you ever seen a heer cap with a 1.5" high crown? Not me. At least I don't remember one. The eagle barely fits on there. Do you believe those insignias are original to this cap? I don't. I can't recall ever seeing a wreath machine-stitched across the bottom and hand-sewn around the other three sides. More like a modern sewing machine couldn't reach the other three sides. (while the visor was off, of course) And who says the visor had to be 'easy' to find?
Maybe the cap sat unfinished for ten years before the 'right' visor came along. Who knows? But the truth is, cap parts and 'parts caps' can be found on ebay all the time, and I've seen coated leather visors just like this one sell for under $100 several times in the last year. With the hobby being what it has become, anytime a rarer visor shows no trace of it's original attachment to a cap, you would be totally naive to accept it at face value that it's the first one that resided there. And from the pics provided, the lining has some serious issues as well. It appears to have once 'overlapped' a much wider sweatband.

Too many un-answered questions for my blood.

[djpool]

I agree, just not in this configuration.

I know that the Heer adopted the bottlegreen badgecloth in the mid-30's, but I never knew they invented it. That's good to know. In any case, I wasn't really thinking 'military' anyway. I was leaning more towards the 'Stahlhelm' or any one of the other para-military organizations with the millions of totally non-standardized, non-textbook varieties of caps. This may explain the former presence of a badge with a ferrous content or a pinback which left rust on the cloth in such a manner. I can't think of any TR badge that would, especially military.

.

Brian,

Here is some info from "Uniforms and traditions Vol. I" that might address some of your questions.

The Old style field cap was introduced by an order HV 34, No. 149 dated 24 March 1934. other books I read stated that the hat came out in 1933.

The Reichs eagle wasn't introduced until 1935. The order requiring cloth insignia on the crushers came out on 30 Oct. 1935. Prior to that the proper insignia was a metal wreath and no national emblem. The book also states that during the transition period 1933/34 that officers still wore the Reichswehr style caps with reichswehr insignia.

Heres a picture taken of an EM wearing a visor cap with wreath and cockade.

it appears that the period between 1933 till the end of 35 the regs were in flux. WR Jim

[djpool]

I agree, just not in this configuration.


The cap has many issues which need to be explained IMO. First of all, the crown has been force-faded, or bleached. It is not at all natural. Why? Do you really believe that it was done with tablets while in the service of the DAK? I don't.

Brian,

Any force bleaching of the crown using a liquid agent,would also have bleached the other side of the cloth too.Thats not the case. I opened a small hole towards the back of the liner to check it out. Here you can see the lining material, a cheesecloth bias material and the base cloth which is Grey Green. The crown, dark green cap band and red piping all show fading from exposure to the sun IMHO.

[djpool]

if the hat is indded an early one could the tailor have based it on a reichsheer or weimar period visor. A very low peak seemed to be a popular style. The style Heer are some Weimar examples at this link:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=192296

Heres a pic from the forum of the visor with field grey band and cloth visor that was discussed in the Uniforms/traditions book.I hope the owner doesn't mind. If so I'll remove it. WR Jim