Is this thick leather visor and the zinc insignias legit for a SS General rank? I would expect it not to be.
-
-
I like this repro, very good reproOriginally posted by MattS View PostI figured it wasn't real when I paid $50 for it!
But as I will never own an original, this one will have to do.
Comment
-
Hi Robert,
I agree with you that zinc badges on a General's cap would be highly unlikely but the use of the leather peak was quite common on all officer rank caps, especially up to 1935. In fact, it was not until 1938 that an order from Himmler forbade the use of lacquered peaks on the SS service cap. I have attached an early shot of Dietrich and his driver that shows both of them wearing caps with lacquered leather peaks. I'll find a couple of others I know I have somewhere that show early Generals with leather peaked hats.
Derek
Shot at 2007-07-28Comment
-
Hello Derek, I agree with you regarding the leather Schirm, but so thick?
Dave, form where you got this pictures? Where these once on a dealers website?Comment
-
Robert, I'll send you a PM!Regards,
DaveComment
-
The way things have been..fake panzer wraps for $40000...fake SS Generals visors $25000 all being offered by respected people in the hobby who are too f---ing proud to say hey I screwed up and draw up sides to do opinion battles,hurting reps and credibility.Really telling of what this hobby has become.
Dave while I respect your ability to ferret out the truth and the fakes, I question your motives for doing so..are they purely selfish in that you like basking under the light of being an "Expert" among the naive, and seeing respected people brought down? Or are you just really a compassionate guy who wants to help the community and get the truth out? I mean... that cap was posted for sale on a website it wasnt offered covertly and people were given opportunity to view it an get it authenticated.
I like Donald Abenheim he is a genuine human being with great knowledge of many things Third Reich but like myself and others not perfect and not beyond the debate..are you after his character? What is it? I'd like to know because I also like reading your opinions..although brash you do dig for facts which I think is important.
So youve proven Donald wrong ... So what..now everyone knows he has faults just like you or I, why push the mark. Get over the ego thing man your a hell of a resource for appraisals and an asset.
Comment
-
Robert,
They were often fairly thick. Here is a detail of a hat, albeit a kepi, that shows the thickness of the leather peak quite well. The only example of an SS hat in my collection with a leather peak is definitely not as thick. I will drag it out and perhaps photograph the bill if it's of any interest.
Derek
Comment
-
John, there was not then nor ever was 'personality' or 'ego' involved.
The cap was a fake plain and simple and at $25k something brash and to the point needed to be said.
The OWNER of the cap crossed the line when he claimed that he would need a 'hands on inspection' and attempted to hide behind an innocent dealer who had the cap on consignment.
The cap soon went back to N. Calif.
The circumstances of the attempt 'sale' go far beyond an error or a mistake. Fake badges were removed and period pieces attached in their place.
Abenheim was called upon to make a so called "expert's" opinion by many of his followers and trusting collectors. He blew it by fabricating the need to view the cap 'in hand' and asserted it as being real, period and rare.
What is the dollar amount, celebrity, popularity or alleged level of 'expert' are we expected to just close our eyes and look the other way.....just because a supposed 'name' is involved.
This is ALL his doing and his own downfall....Regards,
DaveComment
-
Something quite similar occured with the ss wrap that John has reffered to. It always seems that the defenders of these items ends up being the victems and playing the victem to generate a flood of sympathy and empathy. This type of thing really p.....es me off. Jacques
Originally posted by Dave Kane View PostComment
-
I hope and I may be naive in doing so, that he at least will explain the situation behind the cap.Where it came from why it was being sold etc.Ive seen some very nice people in the past buy fakes and later try hard to sell them as real to at least get thier money back..one guy bought a full set of KCs some with oaks, oaks and swords etc. and was trying desperately to sell them at extremely high prices despite them being fake.
Being around and watching the cliques that develope..you make firends you stand by thier words because you like them,or you allow them alot of slack when trading amongst each other..things take bad turns semi truths and out right lies are typed out by friends to hold up reputations of friends and whammo...someones hurt.
All the quality fake Knights crosses out there and if you want to buy one you have to pay near the price of a real one because the people who have them want to sell them as real ..you never see them offered as fillers on the estand very rarely a souval pops up.There are alot of these old fake visors some so wonderfully aged too I remember the Great Western had lots of them all priced as original and later after exposure you dont see them for sale cheap as fillers they just disappear...until you attend a big show then there they are for sale at the high price of a real one again.SadComment
-
-
-
John, while I agree that the entire realm of reproductions is a blight on collecting......it woudn't be if folks didn't hang on a person's word or celebrity or even language ability! It means nothing...how many 'names' have been OUTED in the last 10 years? Authors, long time collectors, promotors.....many have developed their collections based on the ignorance and guilibility of the people who (sadly so) respect them.Originally posted by John Pic View Post
I am glad to see that the Moderators took action against Abenheim's 'woelfl' character and even with his 'poor English skills' he likely got the message. However, that's just a bandage...
The 'screwing' of fellow collectors to benefit one's self will continue and the need for brash and good clear wording will always be necessary.Regards,
DaveComment
-
"The 'screwing' of fellow collectors to benefit one's self will continue and the need for brash and good clear wording will always be necessary.""
Good, we need more people like John and Dave that is wiiling to speak up. Jacques
Comment
-
Jacques,
I disagree with your assessment that the situation on the fake SS Allgemeine General's cap and the put-together SS Officer's panzer wrap are the same.
Yes, both items were proven to be fake, but I think Mr.Singer was very up-front about the fact that the wrap had previously belonged to him, and that he felt it to be an original. When evidence of the contrary came to light, he agreed that the wrap had been put together. As far as I know, the information that proved that the wrap had been put together was not known to Mr. Singer, prior to it being posted here on the forum. And, from what I understand, he has arranged to refund the dealer for the wrap. The only thing that this proves is that a well put-together uniform can fool even an expert like Mr.Singer. After this incident, you may wish to question his expertise, but I see no reason to question his integrity.
The situation with Mr. Abenheim was much different, in that he was selling an item on commission via a well known dealer. When the item was questioned on the forum, he did not acknowledge the fact that the cap belonged to him, but instead offered to give it a 'hands on' inspection and report back to the forum. At best, we can assume that the only thing Mr. Abenheim wanted to cover up was the fact that he was selling an expensive item from his collection. That is my assumption, and I hope that some day Mr. Abenheim will clear up the mater here on the forum and return. His knowledge and postings are missed by many on this forum.
Just my two cents, DougComment
Comment