"Alteste Berliner"--A Primer

[Kreager]

The guys (NTZ, Stone, Dave Kane and so many others) here are hands down a true asset to the collecting community, they look out for the collector. They are true class acts

I want to thank stonemint, NTZ, and all others who posted info and pics on the Alteste fakes. I had sent a down payment on a Alteste visor to a "major dealer" & while the check was in the mail saw the Alteste threads here. I promptly called the dealer, cancelled the order, and just to make doubly sure, stopped payment on the check. Without WAF, I would probably be stuck with this "dog"..

[NTZ]

Has anyone contacted the seller of the Alteste in regards to its origin? He has a pretty good reputation although he is not exactly known for his work with cloth. My guess is an honest mistake (I hope).

[stonemint]

Another alteste variant:

[stonemint]

This is the exterior of the above Alteste cap--Gendarmerie visor:

[stonemint]

A lot of these have a stiff backing to the front panels of the peak, which gives them a "puffy" look. The wool is close, but IMHO, a little off.
Most of these Altestes used a non-bullion, almost white chincord that we see here--these should always be an immediate red-flag:

[stonemint]

This is the "pumpkin-headed" Alteste Big Daddy just posted--note the same chincord as on the above Gendarmerie:

[stonemint]

The A-SS that was posted today has the rarer-seen silk lining (most are the gray cotton):

[NTZ]

This thread would not be complete without this description. This lid is still on the dealer’s site. One of two things. No one had told him yet which I find hard to believe or this prick is so arrogant he thinks he knows more than everyone else. The guy can’t be that obvious could he?

This fine Army Officer’s peaked cap is constructed of whipcord wool. This green wool is in perfect condition throughout, having no mothing anywhere. The cap is piped in a bright yellow color, indicating that this Officer’s Branch was that of Signals. The obverse peak has an aluminum Army eagle, which looks to the viewer’s right, and clutches a swastika. This stamped eagle has excellent detail throughout. Below, on the obverse green band, is a matching Reich cockade, having a wreath of oak leaves and acorns. The cap chin cords are matching aluminum weave, and are in outstanding condition. The patent leather brim is perfect, showing no attic heat crazing. The original, tan kidskin leather, sweatband is in good condition, and the cork inside is still perfect. This sweatband shows only nominal wearing signs in the obverse area. The hat is lined in a brown-colored, silk-style, material. The intact celluloid diamond is in perfect condition. Printed in silver is the maker marking, “Altaste/Berlin-MÜtzenfabriz”. There is also an address below, but this has been mostly obliterated by wear. A beautiful cap here, having a nice peak and good saddle shape. If you have a Signals tunic, this would be a beautiful accompaniant. Mint $795.00

[Dave Kane]

YES!!!!

[stonemint]

OK, I stand corrected on the pumpkinhead A-SS posted by BDK--it is not an Alteste, but another 1960's (for its era) superfake. The piping is not butted, but inserted into each end, like a snake eating its tail:

[stonemint]

And the other give-away is the black lining (which, come to think of it, I have yet to see on an Alteste):

[B. N. Singer]

...Bob Hritz just gave us all a bit of background on these. They were made in Germany in the 50s and 60s by a company called Studio Breuer, and were manufactured without the (offending) insignia. They are now 40-50 years old, and have some degree of age to them, so they are dangerous, as they have a very good shape. According to Bob, Herr Breuer bought out the stock of the legendary August Muller firm, and IMHO, he used wartime hatmakers, given the level of skill with which these babies were put together...

Yes, but the old man had some Great Stuff too (not necessarily hats)! You just had to be Very Very careful.

B. N. Singer

[Lignemaginot]

I THOUGHT I recognized those photos.... strangely enough, the eagle and the TK that were on the cap were actually original, so my money wasn't totally lost on the thing (I think I got it off ebay.de - can't remember). Incidentally, I sold this cap on ebay as a repro, in case anyone is wondering - while the first two photos here were taken by me (and posted on the GD forum, I believe), the "under the hood" shot of the cap wasn't mine - did someone here buy this cap?

Here is a shot of the underside that was taken by me of this cap...

Well, we have a thread on Jankes, so why not the original high-end fake, the one that started it all--the legendary Alteste.
Bob Hritz just gave us all a bit of background on these. They were made in Germany in the 50s and 60s by a company called Studio Breuer, and were manufactured without the (offending) insignia. They are now 40-50 years old, and have some degree of age to them, so they are dangerous, as they have a very good shape. According to Bob, Herr Breuer bought out the stock of the legendary August Muller firm, and IMHO, he used wartime hatmakers, given the level of skill with which these babies were put together.

They will fool the beginning collector, unless you know what to look for (and believe me, they sit in advanced collections all over the world, and are still being sold as originals by advanced dealers).

However, they all have many of the same "tells" that give them away.

The first is the sweatdiamond, which is made out of PLASTIC, not celluloid. They read as follows: "Alteste Berliner Uniform-Mutzenfabrik
Berlin S.W. Wilhelmstrasse 110"

The lining is almost always a grey cotton, although there are rare exceptions:

[NTZ]

Clive, what one did you own?

[Lignemaginot]

Clive, what one did you own?

The first one posted - the W-SS General's cap.