This Just In

[Kreager]

I too am not very fond of this cap. Looks very "new" like evryone has pointed out. That wreath just doesn't sit well with me as well. What are those extra holes in the cap stiffner and cello band area? Looks like staples that have been removed.

[MLH13]

Hello All,

I appreciate everyone's comments and there have been some very good points brought up. I'm still interested in hearing from others before I decide to send the cap back.

Thanks

Mark

[LeeG]

Just a few comments with regard to KM visors. This one may not be as far out there as many people believe.

1. Wreath alignment is a function of the position of the mohair band, it was often not stitched to the cap itself. The wreath itself concerns me, but I am not a KM wreath expert. Eagle is good.
2. Unlike army caps, many of the KM caps I have seen have machine stitched linings.
3. Minty is a concern, I agree.
4. Clear celluloid or plastic band stiffener is a good thing. Most KM caps had such material reinforcing the underside.

I don't think this is a rebadged Bundesmarine visor, though it is possible that it is a higher end fake.
-Lee

KM visors aren't my strong point, but I'll pitch in my 2 cents.

1. The wreath is not aligned with the eagle--its off-center.
2. The stitching of the lining--it is machine-stitched, and not hand stitched down at the bottom.
3. The hat is way too mint for me, and I specialize in stonemint unissued visors.
4. Clear celluloid band stiffener (if that is what that is) is a first for me with wartime KM visors (yes, they did use celluloid, but I have never seen it like this.)

I'm thinking a re-badged Bundesmarine visor. Run the usual tests.

[aardvark]

Is there a sweatshield? Any maker markings anywhere? Also, Lee G..most KM caps have a clear celluloid or plastic stiffner? That's new to me...I've always just seen black plastic or pasteboard...live and learn I guess. Mint is not so much a concern to me...the sweatband just doesn't look right, plus..is it just me or does the underside of the visor look plastic..could be just the photo. Feel free not to respond to my questions/comments.

[MLH13]

The visor does not have a sweatshield and there are no markings anywhere on the visor.

I spoke to the dealer about this cap and the concerns that came up with it. He said the visor is of late war manufacturer and the wreath is very indicative of that. He said the manufacture was limited to the materials that were available to him so late in the war.

Is there a sweatshield? Any maker markings anywhere? Also, Lee G..most KM caps have a clear celluloid or plastic stiffner? That's new to me...I've always just seen black plastic or pasteboard...live and learn I guess. Mint is not so much a concern to me...the sweatband just doesn't look right, plus..is it just me or does the underside of the visor look plastic..could be just the photo. Feel free not to respond to my questions/comments.

[Kreager]

The visor does not have a sweatshield and there are no markings anywhere on the visor.

I spoke to the dealer about this cap and the concerns that came up with it. He said the visor is of late war manufacturer and the wreath is very indicative of that. He said the manufacture was limited to the materials that were available to him so late in the war.

I guess you have 2 choices
1. you can take the word of the dealer (who wants the sale, of course)
2. you can listen to the nonbias comments and concerns of the forum members to build your own thoughts about this cap.
Either way it's your money and you can decide how you want to spend it on your collection.
We gave you the ammunition now it's up to you to use it .

[MLH13]

I guess you have 2 choices
1. you can take the word of the dealer (who wants the sale, of course)
2. you can listen to the nonbias comments and concerns of the forum members to build your own thoughts about this cap.
Either way it's your money and you can decide how you want to spend it on your collection.
We gave you the ammunition now it's up to you to use it .

Everything you said is very true but I'm waiting on the opinion from someone who is one of the preeminent authorities of Kriegsmarine clothing and equipment before I make my decision.

Nothing wrong with exploring all avenues before coming to a conclusion.

[Mike Bollow]

IMO... that cap is 100% a reproduction.

I'm not a KM expert... I'm a reproduction expert. That cap is a VERY high end repro. All the materials are brand new... forget that you WANT it to be real and look at it as though it wasn't yours. All the components are brand new.

Check out this link: http://www.soldat.com/MutzKM.htm

Send it back and live to fight another day my friend!

MB

[LeeG]

Many caps don't have sweatshields or maker marks. With pasteboard, do you mean cardboard? Never seen a real KM cap with that type of stiffner, sorry. Here's my NCO cap for comparison...

Is there a sweatshield? Any maker markings anywhere? Also, Lee G..most KM caps have a clear celluloid or plastic stiffner? That's new to me...I've always just seen black plastic or pasteboard...live and learn I guess. Mint is not so much a concern to me...the sweatband just doesn't look right, plus..is it just me or does the underside of the visor look plastic..could be just the photo. Feel free not to respond to my questions/comments.

[LeeG]

...and underside. Note no sweatshield. Under the sweatband is a very similar looking stiffener to what Mark has shown. Now let's see some other examples -- anybody?

By the way, if Mark's cap is a fake, its a lot better than the stuff offered on soldat.com no offence to Cyrus Lee.

[aardvark]

Well I guess you've seen it all Lee! Everyone can stand down..Lee with the snappy avitar has spoken!

[Dave Kane]

Well I guess you've seen it all Lee! Everyone can stand down..Lee with the snappy avitar has spoken!

I respect Lee's opinion...in fact I'd rely on it! I wonder what has caused your caustic post?

[RUHL13]

My opinion for what its worth, I agree to new.
Lee's example is right on, here is mine for comparison.
Only trying to help.
Regards,
Gary

[RUHL13]

Heres the interior for better comparison.
I just don't accept the late war theory....again.
Not the expert, just my opinion.
Regards,
Gary

[aardvark]

km caps with pasteboard

I got pissed at Lee because he quoted my question about a sweatshield. I just asked if there was one because there was no picture. I didn't need a lecture about whether or not Km caps always have sweatshields. In addition, I didn't like his dismissive "sorry" concerning my comment about pasteboard in KM caps. Never seen a real one with pasteboard..."sorry!" So do what you will with that...but I find Lee's tone very didactic and dissmissive. So here's two U-boat commanders caps with...pasteboard! Both from the same maker..Wilhelm Spechtmeyer...Cuxhaven.