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**W.Unland** · 04-07-2007, 12:07 AM

Hello,

You know I see nothing wrong with it. I would point out though that the Feuerwehr (fire department) wore these black caps. It could be for armored troops, but it could also be for a fireman, and there were a lot more firemen than panzerpolizei I'm afraid.

I think people are reluctant because it is a "late war" RBN numbered piece the type of which has been highly reproduced so knowing for sure can be really difficult. Nobody wants to put their reputation on the line with one of these. Since I'm a police collector, and the hat guys couldn't care less what I say, ie; no reputation to defend, I will give my opinion. That said I personally don't see anything glaringly wrong with it.

Best regards,
Bill Unland

**dormont415** · 04-07-2007, 12:12 AM

Thanks Bill

I appreciate the look. The color was throwing me off. Up on the shelf it goes....
Thanks!

**JoeW** · 04-07-2007, 12:29 AM

Is the eagle white on blue? The cap is black, isn't it? I would classify it as a nice Feuerwehr cap. I got into a lengthy argument on another forum over a black overseas cap that the owner insisted was Panzer, inspite of its lack of green piping.

**gary9** · 04-07-2007, 03:43 AM

This police cap is NOT an original, the construction is rubbish. The stitching is completly wrong in my opinion, I would not even consider this one. Save your money for a real one

**W.Unland** · 04-07-2007, 04:13 AM

Gary,
Don't be shy, tell us what you really, really think about this cap

Other than the two lines of stitching running together at the bottom might you point out a few of the problems that you find with it?
I haven't owned quite the number of these that you have, and must be missing something here.

Regards,
William Unland

**dormont415** · 04-07-2007, 05:26 AM

Thanks

I appreciate the thoughts. William, the eagle is white on almost black blue. When viewed, it looks black. The camera flash brings out the dark blue back ground. Thanks for the help.

Duane

**panzermeyer** · 04-07-2007, 06:01 AM

just a little notice! isn´t the germen fireman uniform colour a very dark blue, and not completely black, and if so how could it possibly be a fireman cap

**W.Unland** · 04-07-2007, 06:30 AM

Dear "panzermeyer",

Yes you are basically correct, BUT the fire department did in fact wear black side caps, and dark blue, and green. I believe the fire services had black coveralls, much like luftwaffe mechanics, maybe even the same, and this cap could have been specified for use with such a uniform.The Feuerwehr guys were responsible for providing their own uniforms, so there are a lot of variations. Manufacturers sold what they had. Of all TR services the Feuerwehr is the one where the rules are just basic guidelines. There are HUNDREDS of insignia variations, so although in a perfect world your observation is spot on, during the period they don't seem to have cared much.

JoeW makes a good point in that the correct side cap for the panzerpolizei should be piped in green. I have always asigned these simple unpiped caps to the fire services. BUT I see no reason why in theory such a cap could not be used by panzerpolizei.

Whether or not THIS example is authentic seems to be in contention, but I have seen black caps similar to this that were used by firemen.

Here is one I have for comparison. it is a very dark navy blue, not black: Only big difference with the above cap is the double line of stitching along the top edge of the flap. Once again, as these were NOT under rzm nor military depot regulations I am not convinced that only one particular sewing pattern is acceptible. These were ALL private purchase, and locally made so I just don't know if the two rows of stitching vs one row is significant. I just haven't handled a large enough quantity of these upon which to base an ex cathedra pronouncement.

Best regards,
William Unland

**W.Unland** · 04-07-2007, 06:48 AM

Same "blue" eagle on front. I prefer to see them stitched like this in a straight machine stitch, but I just don't know if zig-zag stitching was used or not.

**W.Unland** · 04-07-2007, 06:50 AM

And lastly, and interior shot. The blue lining makes me think that this cap was really made for the navy, but sold to a fireman.

Best regards,
Bill Unland

**SCHUPO** · 04-07-2007, 11:29 AM

Duane,

A Polizei Panzer cap should have green piping. I agree with the others that your cap is mostly likely a common Feuerwehr (not Feuerschutzpolizei) side cap. I would certainly not pay any more for such a cap than the value of a Fire Department cap as it is not a Pol Pz cap IMHO.

These black police caps have been faked for so long it is difficult for me to tell originality via a photograph.

**gary9** · 04-07-2007, 11:55 AM

Bill you only need to look at the construction of your cap and compair it to the very sloppy workmanship of the one posted at the bigining of this thread to see how bad the first cap is. Even if this was a lightweight work cap the lines, material used and stitching all are very bad.

This cap looks like one of the recent repros being peddled on Helmut Weitze site.

**dormont415** · 04-07-2007, 02:13 PM

Thanks

Thanks for the help. It has been an education! I'm going to return it and save my money for a regular, police cap (one that I can sort out myself). If you guys had it in hand, you'd probably agree with Gary. It has no wear staining or any smell. Not sure if it's scientific but all my good stuff is stinky old wool. Best case, if it is Fire Police, I paid for Panzer Police. I should follow the old advice, "buy the item, not the dealer.

I'm going to check out the HW site, I should get some good comparison photos. Thanks for the photos Bill.

Duane

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