Let's Define "Textbook"

[Albert]

Seam of the cap band is in the back:

[Albert]

Sperb with machine stitched liner:

[Albert]

My general understanding of "textbook", or of the etymology of that term, is quite literal. I read it as "what has been published" and can be found and read in books. Therefore, the concept should be quite dynamic, since books, articles and online contributions are written almost on a daily basis nowadays. I understand this term to encompass all features known to be original in terms of material, construction, even alterations (i.e. chin cord added to a crusher see Med. visor above) etc...

[NTZ]

Regarding the pressed paper visor these can also be found on late war Schellenbergs and other makers.

Thanks for the pic Albert, I was pretty sure it was Sperb, this confirms it.

[phild]

Great medical cap. I consider this an old style field cap (crusher) of a variation. There is no doubt that crusher caps were made well into the war. There is also no doubt that many crushers had chin cords added.

I've seen a number of pressed paper visors used on "real" crusher caps. In many photos of GD officers one can find them wearing crusher caps with ridgeless pressed paper visors and the SS EM "crusher" on Beaver's uniform books is of this type as well...check it out.

My point is that pressed paper visors can be found on Army and SS peak caps and crushers and they can be found with ridges or raised rims (like a vulcan fiber) or without to look more like a leather visor. I've been seeing these visors for 35 to 40 years on vet bring back caps and there is no question that this type was used pre-45.

I agree with NTZ's points in his response to the original post.

[stonemint]

This thread certainly generated the comment and discussion I had hoped it would! Now for my 2 cents. I have possessed (over the years) visors which violated all of the "textbook" criteria, with the exception of the overlapping piping, and a machine-sewn lining. I have never owned a J. Sperb cap, and had read in the Wilkins book that their linings were machine-sewn, and thank you, Albert, for confirming this--but it still shows that the bottom edge of the lining is not machine-sewn down.
So the bottom line is that there is no such thing as textbook, and for almost every "rule", there is an exception.

With regards to the paper visors Nick brought up, I believe these to be wartime without a doubt--I had a LW officers with a laquered paper visor, but with the green underside and the cotton pique edging.

With regards to reverse seams (ie on the front vs the rear), I have only seen that on LW caps--but Albert's cap has destroyed that myth as well---let's see some more "mythbusters!"

[NTZ]

I was sent pics of a great visor for this thread. I contacted the member and ask him to post them. This one will hit a few points we are talking about.

Nick

[Sayle F]

piping

This is for NTZ. This is Example of piping overlapping.

[NTZ]

Nothing wrong with that cap, great pic.

[Sayle F]

piping

Here is a close up if you could not see it in the first pic.

[Albert]

Here is a close up if you could not see it in the first pic.

Not so much overlapping in first place but rather the use of rayon (as used for piping shoulder boards) instead of the usual wool. Overlapping of wool piping anyone?

[NTZ]

Well here is your front seam and same base and cap material on the same visor.

[phild]

That is a very photo to illustrate the overlap technique of piping. WIth this rayon type piping one will find this tecnique used on pz tabs and shoulder straps as well. I must have to do with the piping material no being suitable for "butting" togeather. IMO this type was very rarely used on visors, but it looks real good.

This is a good example to show that items should not be studied in a vacum....everything is realted. Cloth headgear is simply one component of the UNIFORM and should be studied in that light. Headgear is not an island and only collectors not the original producers and users have pigeon holed it as such.

[NTZ]

Rear

[NTZ]

Inside