Officers Wool M43 Cap

[billbert]

I do ponder the point of why in the 70 s they would bother making these when all you might get for it was 30 bucks MAX..Bought a minty luft overseas from a top 10 dealer in 1978 for 20 bucks..no special deal..Going rate at the time..Billbert
We dont have a shark problem..The beaches are open..dum-dum-dum-dum..

[B. N. Singer]

Bill,

I am not convinced with this piece.

Now tell me, why would they, on manufacture, "lightly stitch" a head band into a hat like this? And unless removed immediately on being bought (issued), would not there be evidence of where the band had been and worn while it was in place (being less soiled) before it was removed and then continued to be used (in Mike D. example)?

And what about the evidence of wear on the officer's cord on the example originally posted, it, to me, seems to have evidence of rather rough "handling" for an example that appears to be mint? Perhaps from storage??

B. N. Singer

[billbert]

Hi Brian
I really cant get on the debating team with you on this,your observation level is better than mine..As i said before I ve had through my hands about seven of these ,not all mint, one well worn with no insignia but an edelweiss attached , a well worn GREEN officers HBT IDENTICAL to these BUT with flatwire eagle machines sewn..1 a friend got from VET unissued with unissed pants.. apair of matching ones with the US vets name and number inside..(rattling my brain now..remembering some more..A 1 from picker vets yard sale who was estatic I gave him 150 for it ..I believe i was the first person to CLOSE not open the buttons up on that cap..Its that new and nice..Different,non standard,ugly,unusual BUT I still stand by these as quite original..I will try to get the story on the pants/hat grouping in the near future (someone we both know who buys almost exclusively from vet contacts)..I am off my soapbox..Always something new to learn..Billbert
PS PS the green hbt varaition had a darker leather sweatband same style and height but this from wear had cracked in about 4 or 5 spots..

[B. N. Singer]

[QUOTE=billbert]Hi Brian
I really cant get on the debating team with you on this...

What we might have here Bill is something akin to those W-SS "pink smocks", some love em some hate em!

I also am keen to learn and certainly don't claim to be the "all knowing orb" when it comes to this stuff!

All the Very Best

Bryon N. Singer

[billbert]

Ditto..Billbert
Ps .. if anyone wants to sell there FAKE m43 army officer hat with the bottle green embroiderd trapeziod and weird piping and cheap sweatband I ll give you 30 bucks for it !!

[B. N. Singer]

[QUOTE=billbert]Ps .. if anyone wants to sell there FAKE m43 army officer hat with the bottle green embroiderd trapeziod and weird piping and cheap sweatband I ll give you 30 bucks for it !!

Come on now Bill, you can do better than that!!

I'll give $75 just to have one to paw over!

B. N. Singer

[Glenn McInnes]

Billbert,

Can you remember if all the caps of this type had this style of piping? I can only remember one cap that I saw which was a reproduction (a M38 officer overseas) with this type of cord piping.

Have you ever seen this type of piping on other M43/M38 officer examples in the past that you knew were 100% correct? I have not but no one has seen everything that was produced.

Just trying to further educate myself here..


Glenn

[djpool]

Bill,

I am not convinced with this piece.

Now tell me, why would they, on manufacture, "lightly stitch" a head band into a hat like this? And unless removed immediately on being bought (issued), would not there be evidence of where the band had been and worn while it was in place (being less soiled) before it was removed and then continued to be used (in Mike D. example)?

And what about the evidence of wear on the officer's cord on the example originally posted, it, to me, seems to have evidence of rather rough "handling" for an example that appears to be mint? Perhaps from storage??

B. N. Singer

Mr Singer,

I don't really know what you mean by lightly stitch.Its certainly not just tacked in. There is a stitch approximately every 1/4" through the sweatband and attaching to the body of the hat itself. Now the method of attachment rather complex. Most sweatbands on fieldcaps I've seen were attached by a line of stitching that was horizontal to the interior of the cap. The stitching on this cap has vertical stitching much like you see in visor caps. Then theres a whole other line of stitching around the cap that the stitching from the sweatband interlocks with. I'm certainly no seamstress but it sure seems like a lot of work. But the sweatband is in there securely. I can't explain Mikes lack of one unless there wasn't one there in the first place.

WR Jim

[B. N. Singer]

[QUOTE=djpool]Mr Singer, I don't really know what you mean by lightly stitch.

"Billbert's" terminology, not mine.

B. N. Singer

[djpool]

[quote=B. N. Singer]

Mr Singer, I don't really know what you mean by lightly stitch.

"Billbert's" terminology, not mine.

B. N. Singer

My apologies.Heres some scans of the cord. Theres a few spots where the core material has popped through the aluminum thread. Possible storage wear or done during the sewing process.Or because of handling by collectors.Jim

Pic 1

[djpool]

pic 2

[djpool]

Billbert,

Can you remember if all the caps of this type had this style of piping? I can only remember one cap that I saw which was a reproduction (a M38 officer overseas) with this type of cord piping.

Have you ever seen this type of piping on other M43/M38 officer examples in the past that you knew were 100% correct? I have not but no one has seen everything that was produced.

Just trying to further educate myself here..


Glenn

Hi Glenn,

I think we're all trying to educate ourselves.

As far as the M38 goes was it a total remanufacture from new materials, from original materials or a combo of both? WR Jim

[Glenn McInnes]

Hi Glenn,

I think we're all trying to educate ourselves.

As far as the M38 goes was it a total remanufacture from new materials, from original materials or a combo of both? WR Jim

Hi Jim,

From what I remember (this was 6 or 7 years ago) the only thing I thought to be original (Pete Whamond saw it as well and agreed) was the insignia. It had no sweatband.

I have to say again though that I have never seen this type piping (have you) used in any other original cap in the past. Whether it be in my own collection,books,other collections,dealer websites etc,etc,or perhaps I just missed it.

Perhaps an anomily I don't know but you think it would turn up on other caps other than these M43's

Glenn

[djpool]

Hi Jim,

From what I remember (this was 6 or 7 years ago) the only thing I thought to be original (Pete Whamond saw it as well and agreed) was the insignia. It had no sweatband.

I have to say again though that I have never seen this type piping (have you) used in any other original cap in the past. Whether it be in my own collection,books,other collections,dealer websites etc,etc,or perhaps I just missed it.

Perhaps an anomily I don't know but you think it would turn up on other caps other than these M43's

Glenn

Hey Glenn,

I haven't seen this piping on another hat either. But I also don't remember the white wool used in lieu of officers cord on other than the SS M43s either. Actually the pipings rather neat looking now whether its wartime or not? To me if I was a faker it would have made more sense to forget the sweatband and cord and put original SS/Heer insignia on it. I mention SS because they seemed to use a greater variety of colored linings than heer, at least looking at the big dealer sites it appears that way.WR Jim

[Glenn McInnes]

Hey Glenn,

I haven't seen this piping on another hat either. But I also don't remember the white wool used in lieu of officers cord on other than the SS M43s either. Actually the pipings rather neat looking now whether its wartime or not? To me if I was a faker it would have made more sense to forget the sweatband and cord and put original SS/Heer insignia on it. I mention SS because they seemed to use a greater variety of colored linings than heer, at least looking at the big dealer sites it appears that way.WR Jim

Hi Jim,

I believe the use of white wool piping was deliberate on SS officers M43 caps. The white wool I believe was for lower ranking SS officers but I am sure all officers would have used both types.

Glenn