Heer Tropical M40 Cap for Review

[Waffenreich]

Good afternoon gents,

I know these caps are very scarce and when available in this condition, and this waffenfarbe (orange - Feldgendarmerie), one has to approach with extreme caution. However, I have been pouring over this cap for about 4 days now and don't see any red flags. I have a purchase agreement in-place with the husband/wife dealer team (who have a very good reputation) so that instills confidence. I'd just like to get a second+ opinion so as to spare the hassles of a return etc. if necessary.

The small-stitch zig-zag insignia application in some respects reminds me of what you see on some Mützen-fabrik Dressen - Rheydt tropical caps.

I'd appreciate any comments you can provide - positive or negative. If you don't like it, please explain in detail what characteristics cause concern.

Thanks in advance.

Regards!

Bob

[B. N. Singer]

Good afternoon gents,

...If you don't like it, please explain in detail what characteristics cause concern.

Thanks in advance.

Regards!

Bob

I will have to defer in that case.

Respectfully,

B. N. Singer

[Waffenreich]

I will have to defer in that case.

Respectfully,

B. N. Singer

Thanks Herr Singer.

Would you consider PM'ing me rather than posting your concerns here please?

vr

Bob

[Waffenreich]

A point was PM'd to me regarding the lack of enamel on the grommets. If you look closely at the grommet on the right you can see the enamel coating and then a chip that exposes the zink on the inside at about the 1:00 - 2:00 position.

I adjusted the color and contrast so you can see the shiny finish on it.

[Waffenreich]

One feature I did not like at first was the visible line of stitching at the base of the bill where it meets the cap front. I have since found this feature clearly visible in a number of original caps shown in Robert Kurtz's excellent book "AFRIKAKORPS" in Chapter 2.

[msteve21]

Not good

Going by your photos it's looks to be a repo

The front fold in the visor bill incorrect as is stitching underneath and the liner itself looks bad, based on your photo

Another red flag is unissued cap with no maker stamps, not impossible but always raises a red flag as does the cockade application IMO

Cockade looks to be a original one that was applied on another cap by machine stitching (as most were) and reapplied on this cap by hand stitching, the stitch holes look too big for the cotton thread.

Out of curiosity how much is the asking price?

[90th Light]

The soutache looks to be Recon golden yellow on my monitor ???

Either way Orange or Golden yellow, something could be wrong. Is this in the same league as this 1941 Panzer Grenadier Carl Halfar sold by emedals for $1685;

https://www.emedals.com/germany-heer...by-carl-halfar

These new state of the art emedals Carl Halfar reproductions were discussed in a thread a couple of years ago. I can not find the thread because the WAF search function is a challenge these days, as the administrators work hard to up-date the site. My search only comes up with old threads around 2010.

One of the weak points of these repros is the model of tropical cockade on a first model tropical M40. The tropical cockades used are all from the same maker, probably from the same un-issued roll. In the thread discussing the 3 caps that turned up at once, there was more makers than just Carl Halfar. They appear to have the same last model cockades like your example made by the same trop insignia maker.

Then there is the question of the version of twill your cap is made from.

If you read member Lodsworth excellent on-line study of tropical M40's; http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=935808 You will see that certain makers used certain tropical eagles and tropical cockades. Of course there is the odd exception like the artillery Frankenstein made cap that Mike Davis found. However, like helmet collectors linking decal type to maker. Trop M40 cap collectors should be linking the trop eagle/ cockade and the way they are sewn on, to each maker.

Also an Orange piped billed trop M40 is basically impossible to find and you can count on one hand how many trop M40 with original factory sewn golden yellow soutache are known in the world today. This alone is a starting red flag but never say never.

The grommets on your cap are very well done. However, grommets and the way they are crimped is another point that can be linked to certain makers. Your grommets have a limited range of possibilities. The lack of enamel on the grommets is not a problem. Many trop M40's out there have lost enamel or suffer corroded grommets. On some trop M40's, certain makers stamps can be totally washed out.

What price are they asking for it ?

Chris

[RGD51]

I have serious doubts about the fabric itself as well as sewing characteristics. I dont like caps with that dark coppery bevo cockade when matched with a soutached cap. This cap simply has little if anything going for it in my opinion. Its not the worst repro to be shown on this forum but its rates right up there.

Robt.

[Waffenreich]

OK guys, I've seen enough.

Thanks very much to all for providing your detailed responses, PMs, and e-mails. This has definitely been a good education. Even though there was a return privilege you spared me the hassle of a back and forth transaction, and, a 2% restocking fee

Thanks again to all!!

Mike - excellent study on the caps. A true Meisterwerk!

Best regards!

Bob

[B. N. Singer]

Thanks Herr Singer.

Would you consider PM'ing me rather than posting your concerns here please?

vr

Bob

Sir I was quite sure you would not require assistance from me to reach a conclusion. That having been said, please feel free to email me at any time.

Regards,
B. N.

[Lenny W]

Pictures from emedals

[pauke]

When I visited Charlie Hinz in 1984 I recall looking at a cap where the soutache had been removed. There was still a bit of color remaining in the cap and it was decidedly orange. So there is one somewhere with orange remnants.

[Waffenreich]

When I visited Charlie Hinz in 1984 I recall looking at a cap where the soutache had been removed. There was still a bit of color remaining in the cap and it was decidedly orange. So there is one somewhere with orange remnants.

Stands to reason as indicated by this pic from Dal McGuirk's "Rommel's Army in Afrika".

And, thank you Herr Singer

vr

Bob

[90th Light]

Pictures from emedals

Thank you for posting the images of the emedals Carl Halfar Lenny,

I have just had someone contact me and rip into me that I am wrong for calling this trop M40 a repro. In their opinion, the trop cockade is perfectly acceptable for a late 1941 or 1942 Carl Halfar. They also make the point that the zig-zag stitch is perfectly correct in more ways than one for how Halfar sewed their badges onto the trop caps they made.

To my eye there are other points that let this emedal Halfar down as not being right and it is a very well made copy.

However, a collector friend has two veteran brought back 1942 dated Carl Halfars. I will ask him to send me images of the trop cockades on them. From memory, one has a removed soutache and the other did not.

Would be interested to know what others think, $1685 would have to be the bargain of the century for a real one,

Chris

[Waffenreich]

There is some weird stuff going on with the stitching on this cockade. Looks like an attempt to replicate zig-zag by hand that got messed up.