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**viva_giulio** · 04-28-2020, 03:21 AM

Soft headgear are the most difficult item to sell since many years (I talk about ss) except few m43 which gain prices but need a buyer.

Price of ss headgears has already fallen since 2017.
Much offer less interest moreover on officer cap and panzer.

**Robert H** · 04-28-2020, 06:50 AM

Soft quality SS headger difficult to sell? Don´t think so from my experience pending on the price and its quality. Just sold one super nice Sonderklasse visor.

Some items like W-SS Officer Kleiderkasse visors where overpriced since many year same like for black RMZ Officer visor caps. Remember when they where up in the 13-16k range. Think those days are gone, but who knows sure.

**viva_giulio** · 04-28-2020, 08:19 AM

All depends of price, you can see how many ss officer sidecaps are unsold in dealer sites. Officer visor have always good market.
I saw very well the market of headgears and I decided to sell 50% (side caps M34 , M40 , officer, and panzers) and buy other .
But it was my choiche and my economic mind.

**stonemint** · 05-01-2020, 03:11 PM

Well, we are 8 weeks into this thing, I have yet to see any "panic selling" when it comes to headgear.

My weekly review of Dealer sites reflects no change in prices, and no discounts.

Estand seems to have common items in common condition at the same prices as before Covid.

**phild** · 05-01-2020, 07:28 PM

I tend to think prices will increase. I don’t see soft headwear (or any other category of item like SS dagger 🗡 or black wound badge) as a bellwether for Third Reich militaria collector prices or even militaria as anything particularly different than other collector type items like vintage automobiles or vintage Rolex’s. The main area that I might be concerned about over the next year or two or more is CASH! It seems to me with trillions more dollars and no doubt Euros to be printed to cover current excess expenditures, one might want to ponder what say $1000 will be able to actually purchase a year from now. I think that a really nice peak cap will continue to be worth what it has been worth for at least the last 50 years I’ve been following and buying them and that is about 1/3 a really nice Luger or 2/3 a nice tunic! The real value of this material has been amazingly consistent.

**DonC** · 05-01-2020, 10:10 PM

I have yet to see an online auction that seems to have suffered form the Wu-Flu yet. Ratisbon's realized prices for both headgear and uniform items were, I felt, at crack-addict levels. I am more interested to see if the big trade shows (MAX, Kassel, SOS) are affected. I suspect there will be more impact on face to face shows, as, let's face it, we are an older demographic.

Don

**phild** · 05-01-2020, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by DonC View Post

I have yet to see an online auction that seems to have suffered form the Wu-Flu yet. Ratisbon's realized prices for both headgear and uniform items were, I felt, at crack-addict levels. I am more interested to see if the big trade shows (MAX, Kassel, SOS) are affected. I suspect there will be more impact on face to face shows, as, let's face it, we are an older demographic.

Don

I agree with you on the first part and I guess we will see on the last part. I can’t see selling my ________(fill in the blank) to get a bunch of cash to buy 500 rolls of TP, 60lbs of Spam (the meat for us old guys not junk email!) or to “invest” in the stock market so I can loose a third of it the next time a buffalo breaks wind and sends Wall Street into a roof jumping panic. I guess if you need the income to pay the power bill, rent/mortgage or buy some gasoline, I can see that need, otherwise what do I need with stacks of cash that is almost guaranteed to buy much less in a year than it will now? We will either “muddle” through this like we did the 1970s or revert to the stone age after surviving an “Escape from LA “ scenario. Sadly I don’t see a good ole 1930s depression as even on the table if we slip off the shelf this time as society is much too fragile (meaning the people and “leaders”), so with what is left I think soft headwear will be pretty worthless only surpassed in uselessness by pallets of $100 bills.

**Robert H** · 05-02-2020, 11:38 AM

8 weeks are nothing for this thing.
I take best care already since end of February for me and my family even when nothing was going on in Germany back then.

Originally posted by stonemint View Post

Well, we are 8 weeks into this thing, I have yet to see any "panic selling" when it comes to headgear.

My weekly review of Dealer sites reflects no change in prices, and no discounts.

Estand seems to have common items in common condition at the same prices as before Covid.

**N.C. Wyeth** · 05-02-2020, 04:54 PM

I don't think prices for any of this stuff will go much of anywhere for a while. It will be much like 2008 again - things will stagnate until people feel comfortable enough that they have more money to spend, and then it will be much like it has been for the past ten years.

Nobody wants to give away their treasures - and history proves that never happens, until a true economic disaster sets in. This is not a true economic disaster - yet. But it does have the potential to become one, if not managed well - and there are also all kinds of other "dynamics" working against all of us that are far buried behind the headlines. Life is not getting easier for most, no matter what someone would like for you to believe.

As far as this virus is concerned, the orchestrated effort across the World seems to be working - but we have yet to see what the future holds. I think the slow drag into Summer will help cull it for now - but once everyone get's that taste of liberty again in their mouth, I fear for what the Fall may bring. It's still a very deadly virus - and at this time, we have no reliable defense. Let's hope one is discovered soon.

Hang on to your treasure for now, and continue to buckle down and prepare. Enjoy Life as best as you can as things continue to progress in the right direction - and hope that it doesn't take a turn for the worse. In the end, it's all about finding that magical balancing-act, to continue doing all the things in Life that you enjoy as best as you can.

**90th Light** · 05-02-2020, 06:12 PM

It is too early to be able to see which way the market for German WW2 headgear will go ???

There is a whole range of commentary about various markets and the impact of the Coronavirus.

For now in the short term, who really knows ? Depends on the out-look and circumstances of the commentator. Depends how fast economies recover and what form the rebound takes. Depends on the state of the postal/ courier/ airlines going forward. Depends on who is willing and able to collect. Depends on what governments outlaw, ban or tax.

I am reading everything I can about a whole range of markets, no one knows. What they write comes down to whether they have a pessimistic view or an optimistic view and the quality of their research/ background/ experience/ wisdom.

One of the more astute comments I have read about the real estate market here in New Zealand (which was booming before the impact of Coronavirus), stated we will not see the full effect until 1 year to 2 years from now.

I think the same applies to the German headgear market. For now those who are selling are carrying on with the market prices as they existed before this thing began.

Personally, I do not see why that will not continue unless a seller desperately wants to sell or has no other option than to sell. How many collectors or dealers are in that position and how many are not ?

People are complaining that dealers are suddenly not having fire-sales and slashing prices. Well if they do not have too sell at a reduced price then why should they ?

Lets not forget that up until 2008, the prices of Third Reich Militaria was a booming market for at least 30 years, if not longer. Before 2008, prices had continuously gone up and up and up with no end in sight. That is not the case here, the German Militaria market has corrected to new realistic market levels since 2008. In many cases the 2008 price level has held up but not increased. In some cases it has increased in a few areas it has dropped back. Also let not forget that before 2008, we had serious inflation, stagflation and record high interest rates. Since 2008, we have had low inflation, deflation and declining interest rates to very low levels even negative levels.

I do not see why those corrected market levels are still not realistic for now. The interesting questions will be inflation, interest rates, incomes plus other economic indicators e.g. exchange rates, taxes, postal/ courier prices.

I do not expect to be buying SS officer visors or soutached tropical M40's for US$1000 anytime soon but would buy as many as I could should they fall to such prices,

Chris

**N.C. Wyeth** · 05-02-2020, 08:27 PM

The things we covet . . .

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

I do not expect to be buying SS officer visors or soutached tropical M40's for US$1000 anytime soon but would buy as many as I could should they fall to such prices,

You forgot to include: ". . . should at that time I be financially secure enough to be able to spend $1000 on an SS officer visor or soutached tropical M40."

Beyond the current crisis, I still say what will produce the greatest impact will be the collectors that follow in the next decade or longer. We are all old men - or at least the majority of us - and we still have money to spend, and an embodied attachment to this part of human past. But as time goes on, it will be interesting to see how strong that attachment remains for the forthcoming generations - and if they have the financial fortitude to engage in this hobby like we have. In my heart, I honestly believe this is what will make the most impact upon our future - and that the current crisis won't do much for making a change upon us. I know this is a concept that has been beat-to-death in the past - but I really do feel this is the only thing that could change the status-quo of headgear collecting. The World economy is much more diverse than it has been in the past - and eventually, things will eventually work themselves out. It may not be pretty - but there is no reason why it couldn't happen. We all thought 2008 was the end of the World - and for how bad it really was, we all seemed to have survived it. Better or for worse.

Now if this virus turns out to become more than it currently appears to be . . . well, then - hold on to your backside. Anything could happen at that point.

**R.Beck** · 05-02-2020, 08:33 PM

you would need a longterm downturn in the economy before collectables collapse, certainly not 2 months, more like a 6 months or more of this political nonsense. Lib state governors are going to ensure economic suppression until November and then they'll signal the all clear

**N.C. Wyeth** · 05-02-2020, 09:52 PM

I suspect it's a little more complicated than that . . .

Originally posted by R.Beck View Post

you would need a longterm downturn in the economy before collectables collapse, certainly not 2 months, more like a 6 months or more of this political nonsense. Lib state governors are going to ensure economic suppression until November and then they'll signal the all clear

I agree - it's going to take a lot more than few months. And evidently, some additional clear-minded instruction for those not yet capable of fully comprehending the situation at hand.

**90th Light** · 05-02-2020, 10:16 PM

Collectors my age, older and younger collect original items from, for example the Roman Empire or Napoleonic headdress and uniforms. However, today you could question how much actual "embodied attachment to this part of human past" they personally have except for what they read, watch, research or know. Some may still have a family connection but probably not the majority of collectors of Roman/ Napoleonic in the 21st Century.

The real challenge of collecting beyond doubt original Roman or Napoleonic headdress today is finding it and then being able to afford it when it does come on to the market. Unless ridiculously over-priced, it does not hang around. The other challenge is that each year that passes, a certain percentage of original items are lost forever and the number of original items becomes less and less. Thus over time, there might be less collectors but this is being balanced by less beyond doubt quality items to be able to collect.

The same applies to Third Reich Militaria. Collectors today take supply for granted. The internet added to that illusion and was one of the periods of increased supply, like when the veterans disposed of their items. Today, it is when a collection comes onto the market but that is not a constant and many items change hands without ever being listed. However, many seem to think these sources will go on forever. They will not and some are already challenged and nothing like they use to be.

Even the so called common items which are often quoted as likely to be worth nothing in the future. Try selling an EK2, Gott-Mit-Uns belt buckle or a WH breast eagle in good condition at a fair price. They always sell. At the other end of the scale the rarest of the rare, some items are already almost impossible to get or a once in a life time opportunity, even now today in this period of global abundant supply.

As far as the prospect young collectors and those not even born collecting, I can but quote Steiner from the film "Cross of Iron";

Sargeant Steiner : "Do you think that they will ever forgive us for what we've done?"

Sargeant Steiner : "Or forget us?"

Whether it is from computer games, kit-sets, neo-politically-correct history classes, media, big screen productions, fashion studies, politics, family tree connection or what ever. Third Reich headdress will be recognized for what it is, have a collector/ curiosity following and command a price. The question is, how popular/ fashionable/ politically-correct will it be ?

But the real question, how fast will beyond doubt items be lost forever/ destroyed and how high the prices for what remains will be a 100 years verses 1000 years from now ?

Chris

**Jos L C** · 05-02-2020, 10:17 PM

Covid is a long lasting something, 6-8 weeks now, Anna Frank had to hide couple of years and we already start complaining ..
Many deads will follow, regardless the mood swing it's getting better..
About selling, ALL prices for this old crap are insane, but we all want them to be like that.
Health will go down, market still strong, great ..

Let's try to focus at the health issues first, instead of having sleepless night about the market and all the stupiness around that.

Jos

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