KM tropical M41 maker identification

[Gustav 43]

Hello gents,
here I have KM tropical M 41 cap rebadged to LW I got last year.Is it possible to identificate the maker from the photos? Possible year of production?
There is a 58 size stamp and a smaller W only visible on the liner.
Thank you

[Tim O'Keefe]

Maybe this one ? post #101 & 102.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=218715

[Gustav 43]

Thanks for the photo Tim..yes,looks similar but I understand that it is almost impossible to recognize the maker just from my photos.
Thanks anyway

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks

Here are a couple more Franz Ritter, later rbn# 0/0678/5015 KM caps.
Notice the visor underside and the high false front around the scallop.

A Ritter from Erich's thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=tropical

& a later rbn# 0/0678/5015 in an interesting thread.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&highlight=rbn

However your cap has the standard Herr tropical grommets not the typical type used by the KM. Ritter did subcontract out so there are variations from this maker.

Your very special KM/LW convert cap is something to ponder anyway

[Gustav 43]

Thanks again for the links Tim
Yes,looks like it could be Ritter made cap but what about the BAW maker?What do you think,could be the W visible on the liner just a remnant of the BAW marking?

[billbert]

I believe you will find the W is for size as in KOPFWEITE ..head size..Billbert

[RGD51]

Thanks

Here are a couple more Franz Ritter, later rbn# 0/0678/5015 KM caps.
Notice the visor underside and the high false front around the scallop.

A Ritter from Erich's thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=tropical

& a later rbn# 0/0678/5015 in an interesting thread.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&highlight=rbn

However your cap has the standard Herr tropical grommets not the typical type used by the KM. Ritter did subcontract out so there are variations from this maker.

Your very special KM/LW convert cap is something to ponder anyway

Somewhere on WAF it is mentioned that Janke made repro Franz Ritters in the 70’s....something to consider.

Robt.

[Gustav 43]

Somewhere on WAF it is mentioned that Janke made repro Franz Ritters in the 70’s....something to consider.

Robt.

Hello Robt.,could be the cap which started this thread one of them?

[RGD51]

Hello Robt.,could be the cap which started this thread one of them?

No, my error, as Janke reconstituted the Dettingen stamp.... sorry.

Robt.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Somewhere on WAF it is mentioned that Janke made repro Franz Ritters in the 70’s....something to consider.

Robt.

Thanks Robert always good to be reminded of the other possibilities

What are your thoughts on the KM/LW convert cap ?

Yes we talked about the Janke fake Ritters a couple times in past threads. Here is a post #10 from Ralph Heinz in his thread on fake tropical caps..

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=17661

Ralph,
"The Janke firm in Germany has used an ink stamp for years in its caps that copies an original ink stamp except that it has slanted letters (italics) and the date and size stamps are different. That stamp is four lines: "Franz Ritter vorm. (formerly) CARL ROTH Dettingen."

I've seen the original stamp in a tropical Kriegsmarine cap and the letters do not slant. I corresponded with Gary Wilkins about this ink stamp and he agreed that Franz Ritter may have bought out an older firm (Carl Roth) in Dettingen and continued manufacture of caps there under the new name. Wilkins reported a very similar stamp with "Franz Ritter vorm. H.K.FLander Minden (Westf.)" in a cap.

It may well be that Ritter bought out a couple smaller companies and added his name to the ink stamps.

For now at least, the Franz Ritter stamp with the Dettingen address that is italicized is the one Janke used or may still use. I find this disturbing -- if they are making reproductions for the reenactor trade why copy an original stamp almost exactly unless it is also meant to deceive collectors in the future? Why not stamp them with the Janke name if there is no intention of fakery ?"

The Ritter cap in post #4 has straight lettering not italics in it's makers stamp.