Fake tropical cap alert

[Ralph Heinz]

A fellow Forum member graciously loaned me two reproduction tropical army billed field caps (one officer's cap and one EM cap) a couple months ago which I photograhed and returned to him. They were sold to him by an Internet dealer in reproduction uniform items and were not misrepresented.

However, these caps have been seen for several years on various Internet web sites and auctions misrepresented as originals and offered for many times their original price of about $80 for an enlisted man's cap. They have been seen both with and without soutaches.

One of the most obvious ways to determine their fradulent nature is the ink stamp inside on the lining. I'm attaching a photo of this copy of a Clemens Wagner ink stamp. It is an oval with CLEMENS WAGNER at the top, a "+" sign at either end of the oval, the date '1941' in the middle, and the city BRAUNSWEIG below.

The city name, Braunschweig, is misspelled. The makers of this modern cap left out the letters 'ch' and this is a dead give-away that you are looking at a fake.

Clemens Wagner was one of the most prolific makers of tropical army caps and used several different ink stamps. In each original, the city name is properly spelled. Incidentally, there is no other city with this name in Germany so it can't be claimed that it was made in the "other" city with that name.

Now I'm seeing Luftwaffe tropical caps with this same exact stamp complete with the misspelled city name including a "LW Tropical Enlisted Overseas Cap" on a prominent MAX/GD certified dealer's web site for $650. That is NOT to say this dealer is knowingly misrepresenting a fake as an original. None of us can know this huge field of German militaria in every aspect and detail. We all get fooled from time to time -- even the best of dealers.

Only a couple years ago, a large outdoors catalog supply house was offering the army version of these caps with a white soutache and the same ink stamp for $79.95. I still have their ad for reference.

There are far more reproductions and outright fakes of tropical army caps on the market today and it now appears the same maker is producing LW caps to fool us with.

[Ralph Heinz]

Another version

In many of these fake army tropical caps, the ink stamp has been applied across the top seam -- which sometimes obscures the fact that the city name has been misspelled. Here is an example:

[Ralph Heinz]

Cap interior

This is a photo of the repro cap showing the interior and how the phony ink stamp was applied. There are other discrepancies including grommets that are not correct but the ink stamp is the most obvious one.

[Ralph Heinz]

Fake CW cap on eBay

Check eBay # 3203439558, for another example of a fake LW tropical Flieger cap being offered for sale with the Clemens Wagner ink stamp across the center seam. The seller in this case states that it "may be postwar." Yes -- like half a century post war. This auction ends on Jan. 31st.

Another copy of an original maker's ink stamp -- Willi Sprengfeil -- has also been appearing in tropical caps. One just sold on eBay, item # 3202725234 although it didn't bring a big price so someone must have gotten suspicious. The copy of this ink stamp hasn't been quite exact either.

[Panzer]

Hi Ralph,
excellent infomation as usual. Many thanks. It is great to keep up with current infomation.

In Jose Figueroa's great book 'Tropical Headgear of the German Wehrmacht of WW2' I was told by someone quite a while ago in Germany that the stamp inside the 1st cap shown (page 8 if you have the book) which says 'Johann Vogl' followed by the address was actually a repro and that the name and address was his shop or home or whatever. Does anyone know about this one? The style of the stamp certainly made me question it, as it's done in a much less formal style that the regular "issue" stamps we are used to....and the cap was unlikely to be a privat tailor piece at such an early time of the Afrika expedition.

I certainly haven't seen any out there for sale....but it smacked of the truth to me especially in light of the repro buckle making 'OLC' vs. 'OCL' marking thing.

Cheers, Wade

[Ralph Heinz]

Johann Vogl

Wade,

I haven't seen another cap with the Johann Vogl ink stamp but Alfred Valet of Suttgart-Bad Cannstatt used an ink stamp that was quite similar with fancy script type lettering and I have two authentic tropical army caps made in 1942 by this maker. This (Alfred Valet) ink stamp can be seen in an M34 field cap on pg. 228 of Gary Wilkins recent book, THE COLLECTOR'S GUIDE TO CLOTH THIRD REICH MILITARY HEADGEAR and I've seen photos of a third tropical army cap with this fancy stamp.

That said, the Johann Vogl cap looks good in other details including the inside view of the grommets and Monte Cheney, who owned the cap and most of the caps in Jose's book, is knowledgeable about tropical caps, particularly the details of reproduction caps since he has made and sold a number of them to reenactors. Thankfully, he uses a fantasy maker's ink stamp: G. HESSLER KASTL TALWEG NR. 16 in three lines. The grommets in his repro caps won't fool collectors but he did tell me he used original fabric for the army tropical caps. (I have one and the fabric certainly looks original to me).

I wonder if perhaps the person who told you the Vogl cap was a repro thought that because the ink stamp wasn't the usual block type he was used to seeing in the caps of more prolific makers like Robert Lubstein and Carl Halfar or the very simple fonts used in the ink stamps of Clemens Wagner, Hans Brandt, Karl Kubach, and others. Perhaps that fancy font threw him because it "wasn't in the book."

There are other caps by much less prolific makers like Ottmar Reich and Aurel Huber -- both of Lindenburg, a "suburb" of Berlin who made caps in the late 1942-43 time period and I've only seen one example by each of these makers so perhaps caps made by Vogl just aren't around in numbers for us to have seen.

For those who haven't seen it, I'm attaching a photo of the ink stamp used by Monte Cheney in his repro caps. Unfortunately, I've seen these caps (including a Hermann Meyer cap) on eBay being sold as originals.

[Ralph Heinz]

Alfred Valet ink stamp

This is the authentic ink stamp of Alfred Valet I referred to above which is in a fancy script type of font. This may be the same case of the Johann Vogl cap and its ink stamp.

I know some of you will say "don't show this as it just shows the fakers what it looked like so they can copy it" but it has already appeared in two books on the subject and I'm only showing half the ink stamp so you can see the fancy script font but fakers can't use this as a guide to copy. I also didn't show the font used for the date and size.

[Panzer]

Hi Ralph,
thanks for that...very interesting! I can't swear for sure now it was the Vogl cap that was mentioned......my memory could be faulty on that. And it sounds like the owner certainly knows his stuff.

I have had two tropical caps, both with the impregnated sweatband....and those are just wonderful to have! One look at them and you just KNOW they are good!

Cheers, and thanks for the education! Wade K.

[PaulHD]

Verrry interesting;

I lately acquired a tropical , Afrika, M-43 type cap with the
stamp, CARL ROTH

Dettingen
58

Sold as a repro, so I assume the stamp is totaly fictious.
But you may know what happens when you assume; especially in collecting. If anyone knows, then this is a another warning sign,
of a repro.
Paul HD

[Ralph Heinz]

Carl Roth caps

The Janke firm in Germany has used an ink stamp for years in its caps that copies an original ink stamp except that it has slanted letters (italics) and the date and size stamps are different. That stamp is four lines: "Franz Ritter vorm. (formerly) CARL ROTH Dettingen."

I've seen the original stamp in a tropical Kriegsmarine cap and the letters do not slant. I corresponded with Gary Wilkins about this ink stamp and he agreed that Franz Ritter may have bought out an older firm (Carl Roth) in Dettingen and continued manufacture of caps there under the new name. Wilkins reported a very similar stamp with "Franz Ritter vorm. H.K.FLander Minden (Westf.)" in a cap.

It may well be that Ritter bought out a couple smaller companies and added his name to the ink stamps.

For now at least, the Franz Ritter stamp with the Dettingen address that is italicized is the one Janke used or may still use. I find this disturbing -- if they are making reproductions for the reenactor trade why copy an original stamp almost exactly unless it is also meant to deceive collectors in the future? Why not stamp them with the Janke name if there is no intention of fakery?

[Ceasarion]

PaulHD???? Did your cap have the logo: Franz Ritter Vorm, Carl Roth Dettingen 1942 57 on it in a straight lettering 4 line stamp? Date size? Because Franz Ritter Carl Roth Manufacturing collaboration was a highly respected Cap, Visor, headgear producer and are actually quite rare and were innovative in the uses of new materials for their M-42 caps bills and tried out different methods of ideas aproved by the Ministry of TR . This is why many experts are confused about any variations of "The same old same old" they only accept as real. But don't make this mistake and drink the koolaid and NOT buy one of these caps because it isn't just a cookie cutters advice on what are rare and known as one of the highest quality ever made caps visors or headcovers because FR vorm CR Dettingen 19?? 57 58 ? Are TOP Tropical caps and were really prized by DAK Medit. Troops and were made for Kriegs, Luft, Army and even special marked with divisional info for Fallschirmjager troops and these rare FJ caps are scarce and if you EVER see one for sale you need to buy buy buy. Only a few known examples are left and are in a couple of museums in Europe and were hard to locate because the manufacturer is on the INSIDE of the cap and you got to ask them nicely to look. Reason I know is I asked because I own one of these very cool looking tropical M-40 looking caps only FJ troops had the units printed into these caps along the seems and have a slightly different look. Mines the same cloth as any tropical M40 cap but cuts a little higher and even more rakish when worn by the Swaggering Fallschirmjagger green Devils in tropical/Medit uniforms gear and M40 lightweight cap.

[17thairborne]

Great info. Thanks for sharing to help us save our money!

[Tim O'Keefe]

PaulHD???? Did your cap have the logo: Franz Ritter Vorm, Carl Roth Dettingen 1942 57 on it in a straight lettering 4 line stamp? Date size? Because Franz Ritter Carl Roth Manufacturing collaboration was a highly respected Cap, Visor, headgear producer and are actually quite rare and were innovative in the uses of new materials for their M-42 caps bills and tried out different methods of ideas aproved by the Ministry of TR . This is why many experts are confused about any variations of "The same old same old" they only accept as real. But don't make this mistake and drink the koolaid and NOT buy one of these caps because it isn't just a cookie cutters advice on what are rare and known as one of the highest quality ever made caps visors or headcovers because FR vorm CR Dettingen 19?? 57 58 ? Are TOP Tropical caps and were really prized by DAK Medit. Troops and were made for Kriegs, Luft, Army and even special marked with divisional info for Fallschirmjager troops and these rare FJ caps are scarce and if you EVER see one for sale you need to buy buy buy. Only a few known examples are left and are in a couple of museums in Europe and were hard to locate because the manufacturer is on the INSIDE of the cap and you got to ask them nicely to look. Reason I know is I asked because I own one of these very cool looking tropical M-40 looking caps only FJ troops had the units printed into these caps along the seems and have a slightly different look. Mines the same cloth as any tropical M40 cap but cuts a little higher and even more rakish when worn by the Swaggering Fallschirmjagger green Devils in tropical/Medit uniforms gear and M40 lightweight cap.

Though dated this is still a useful thread. Ralph Heinz is not a cookie cutter, he is one of the most knowledable tropical collectors in the world.....

Go ahead and start a thread & lets see your cap & see if it passes muster here on the WAF ?

[Paris Gun]

I don't think it is ever wise to advise ANYONE to "buy, buy, buy" an unseen artifact that is not/ has not been vetted by the many knowledgeable collectors on this forum.

After all, I have a complete piece of SH*T hat that is void of any markings, so if I add the maker name you've declared as a "buy, buy, buy" piece to said hat, some 'newbie' could be taken for a ride.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS: CAVEAT EMPTOR (BUYER BEWARE)!

[Willi Z.]

Go ahead and start a thread & lets see your cap & see if it passes muster here on the WAF ?

He has been talking about that cap for several years now and has been asked several times to post it...... he never does.