Steel HJ Buckle

[Steve Ritter]

I have been informed this is a reproduction. If so I would like to know origin and why they are not seen of a regular basis like most reproductions. thanks

[klr]

You will find original marking like this on some nickel HJ buckles but the markings on the other end by the catch not under the prong bar. The company trade mark and the RZM m4 code shouldn't be found on a steel buckle.

[keifer kahn]

The company trade mark and the RZM m4 code shouldn't be found on a steel buckle.[/QUOTE]



I beg to differ on one point,

Steinhauer and luck HJ buckles with transitional markings RZM, KH M4/49 plus the S& L Logo are nickel plated steel.

[klr]

I have a nickel over steel and brass over steel SA/NSKK M/4/27 RZM marked buckles but they aren't trade marked. The Assmann and M4 markings on the repo I have only see on nickel HJ buckles.

[keifer kahn]

You may of forgot you actually posted one i mentioned.

Do you wantt me to show you the thread???

Put "New HJ" in the search engine. Belt buckle forum.

Your name of course.

That buckle is steel, you can even see the rust bleed on the reverse.

Nickel for sure....nickel plated.That is why it has a bright finish.

[klr]

I will have to look at my HJ case and see if that buckle is magnetic. My memory isn't what it use to be.

[keifer kahn]

Id add that Assmann also produced them and others.


There plenty of threads on here covering the subject.

[klr]

Are any of them unplated steel with double markings?

[keifer kahn]

No,

And i think thats the point . Later Painted steel HJ buckles shouldnt have both markings but some earlier transitional nickel plated steel ones will.

The thread titled " HJ RZM M4/39" poster "Artemss" shows a beautiful example of
a Nickel plated steel buckle.

[Belten]

The one you show in the original post is a very bad, and very common fake. These show up often, so they are encountered on a regular basis. Besides the markings, the crank catch is not the type seen on Assmann buckles. That type of catch is seen on Aurich HJ buckle, however. Also, Assmann used the same type of eagle throughout production of HJ buckles, and this isn't it.

In regards to the other question(s), nickel over steel HJ buckles do exist with transitional Assmann markings, but such markings should never appear on a painted steel buckle.

[keifer kahn]

The Nash buckle book has a decent list of HJ Nickel plated over steel listing.

Ill post it later.

[Belten]

By the way, when you refer to the 'transitional' Assmann M4/39 markings, you are referring to a different buckle than Kir. The very early RZM-era Assmann markings are the same as those seen on the fake buckle in post number 1. That is, RZM 17, that being Assmann's M1 code. The M4/39 buckles with the Assmann logo were, of course, produced later. This latter group exists in nickel over steel, as does another type bearing the M4/39 code without the Assmann logo. In my opinion, the buckles produced without the Assmann logo were made after those with the logo, because manufacturers' logos were forbidden in approximately 1935.

I'm not aware of any nickel over steel HJ buckles with the RZM 17 code, nor any nickel bucklers with the M4/39 code. Either or both might exist, though, of course.

In any event, that doesn't change the fact that the buckle which started this thread is a reasonably obvious fake. The timeframe in which these buckles (painted steel) were produced isn't even close to the timeframe in which the nickel over steel examples were. In my opinion, the production of nickel over steel HJ buckles by Assmann probably ended around the mid-1930s, at which time they were phased out by aluminum. I believe that painted steel buckles then came into production in or around 1940. To be clear, both of these opinions are just that: opinions. I don't have facts to support them, although other collectors may be aware of some original period documentation which will either support or refute what I've said here.

[yellow12]

Early Assmann nickel

Hello,

now let's help

Assmann early nickel buckle :

[yellow12]

In the nexst stap a nickel over steel :

[yellow12]

Here i show the right crank catch Assmann to comparison .

Not the wing features :