Who knows this buckle maker?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

"Hch." should be the abbreviation of Heinrich, thus the company's founder was one Heinrich Schwerter.

Kind regards
Kurt

The abreviation of Heinrich isn't it just H.??

Do you know how many Schwerter were at the head of the company when it was founded? Maybe 3 of them?

Currently HSI Schwerter MetallwarenFbr. is doing business in Iserlohn (about 7 kms from Menden). One of the founder in 1905 was Hermann Schwerter. I believe it is the exact same company (the company never replied to any of my inquiries in those last years - so it is just a belief). If I am correct, this would make already two H. Schwerter founders: Heinrich and Hermann. But HSI Schwerter make the emphasis on Hermann, not Heinrich. So??

[Kurt Doench]

Hi Jean-Pierre

There are no fixed rules on name abbreviations in the German language. Especially when there are several people involved whose first name starts with the same letter, using "Hch." instead of "H." would clarify who is referred to.

I have no info either on Heinrich Schwerter Menden or HSI Iserlohn, but as you said the two towns are very close. Could be both Hermann and Heinrich originally started out with their own companies that were merged later on, could be there only ever was one company founded by Heinrich and the name was changed later when a son or other family member took over from the founder, etc. etc. The seat could have been moved at any time in the company's history.

If HSI do not answer your enquiries, possibly the local Chamber of Industry and Commerce might have historical nformation. Germany does not have a central companies register. Companies are registered with the Local Court (Amtsgericht). This might be another avenue to explore, but the local Companies Registers are being kept in electronic form nowadays and might just show the current status. Not sure the court would provide information via email anyway.

Bottom line: I'm pretty sure this matter can be resolved, but it would require some digging and would probably have to be done locally. For me, and even in the absence of proof positive, the combination of the various pointers that have been shown is sufficient to identify the logo on the buckle as (very probably) being that of Heinrich Schwerter Menden, and that's good enough for me at this time considering the time and effort that would be needed to take this any further.

Kind regards
Kurt

[planet]

Hello Jean-Pierre,
You could be right, that the prongs might be made and bought from another companie. Here I have a DJ-buckle with same kind of prongs. It is from the maker Nordwall Dransfeld, Menden (M4/34). If prongs are the same it would be my conclusion, that both makers were close to eachother. So one more point to assume, that Your buckle is from the Schwerter-companie, Menden.
Question is, which companie made the prongs?
Best regards, Thomas

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hi Jean-Pierre

There are no fixed rules on name abbreviations in the German language. Especially when there are several people involved whose first name starts with the same letter, using "Hch." instead of "H." would clarify who is referred to.

I have no info either on Heinrich Schwerter Menden or HSI Iserlohn, but as you said the two towns are very close. Could be both Hermann and Heinrich originally started out with their own companies that were merged later on, could be there only ever was one company founded by Heinrich and the name was changed later when a son or other family member took over from the founder, etc. etc. The seat could have been moved at any time in the company's history.

If HSI do not answer your enquiries, possibly the local Chamber of Industry and Commerce might have historical nformation. Germany does not have a central companies register. Companies are registered with the Local Court (Amtsgericht). This might be another avenue to explore, but the local Companies Registers are being kept in electronic form nowadays and might just show the current status. Not sure the court would provide information via email anyway.

Bottom line: I'm pretty sure this matter can be resolved, but it would require some digging and would probably have to be done locally. For me, and even in the absence of proof positive, the combination of the various pointers that have been shown is sufficient to identify the logo on the buckle as (very probably) being that of Heinrich Schwerter Menden, and that's good enough for me at this time considering the time and effort that would be needed to take this any further.

Kind regards
Kurt

Once again, Thank You Kurt Your were able to make me perfectly understand several aspects of your language which I was not aware of. Now I do understand better why several German collectors (including Schorschi) did believe since several years the logo was indeed for Hch. Schwerter. Language barrier did not help for sure ... Now I need to jump on the other subject, prongs found on the buckle bearing this logo.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Jean-Pierre,
You could be right, that the prongs might be made and bought from another companie. Here I have a DJ-buckle with same kind of prongs. It is from the maker Nordwall Dransfeld, Menden (M4/34). If prongs are the same it would be my conclusion, that both makers were close to eachother. So one more point to assume, that Your buckle is from the Schwerter-companie, Menden.
Question is, which companie made the prongs?
Best regards, Thomas

So far, none of the prongs I saw from maker M4/34 or RZM 34 were the same as the ones on the Turnerbund buckle from, let's assume, H.Schwerter. Here is the detail I am looking for:

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

So far, none of the prongs I saw from maker M4/34 or RZM 34 were the same as the ones on the Turnerbund buckle from, let's assume, H.Schwerter. Here is the detail I am looking for:

...and I would not be surprised to find the exact same prongs on a buckle been made by another maker than H.Schwerter.