Leather Tabs On SS EM Buckles

[Gary Wood]

and the back

[M. A. Miller]

SS buckle

I have a question for Jean Pierre. The Buckle that you show as a real buckle has 3 logo marks ,all with one circle around them,ie:rzm,ss,date.The books I have for fakes show these single circle marks on reproductions. Are they common to real ones too? Are the double circle marks more common? Thanks for any response.Mitch

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Mitch,

Both RZM logos (with one or two rings) are found on original SS Buckles. Saying RZM logos with one ring were fake was a total non sense. As Angolia said (and here he is right), one has just to grab an original issue of the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM" from 1938 to find the logo is with a single ring!
Regarding SS Buckles, most early (if not all) nickel silver SS buckles (up to 1936) bearing RZM or RZM/SS contracts numbers have the RZM with a single ring. Starting with the aluminum buckles and later with the steel ones, having one or two rings was based on maker, year of production and/or die engraver.
No rules there or one been scarcer than the other. As example here are the 3 variants of SS EM buckles produced by C.T.Dicke in 1938. All produced within the same year (1938) and in aluminum. Note single and double rings.

At least one thing is sure, I will never take for original a RZM logo which has the R, Z and M all within one or two circle(s) (meaning the M is not part of the circle).

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

822/38's

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

822/38's Back

[M. A. Miller]

SS buckle

Jean Pierre,
Thank you very much for your quick response. Very nice pieces you have there.All I have to say is those cheap books that are out there on reproductions are not accurate and confusing. Thank goodness we have the combined knowledge here to access.Thaks again, Mitch

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Mitch,

So far, if you are interested by Third Reich belt buckles, the best one is Angolia's second edition. There is quite a few errors in it, and few fake buckles labeled as original, but yet a lot of good work. Even if not perfect, one of the best for now.

[DaveJ]

Could you show a photo of the markings on the backs,
Thanks,
Dave

[DaveJ]

Okay,
I did not see them before i replyed,
Thanks
Dave

[Johannes Schoen]

Hello,

Found this today in an online-auction (ended this noon). The link org. Koppelschloß XX, Herst.OLC, Lasche will bring You to a Waffen buckle with leather tab. The tab is stamped 1937. The date 1937 on a steel buckle alone seems to be a problem. But maybe the buckle is original?

Greetings Johannes

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Don't worry, the buckle is not original.

Anyway, since there was NO leather tabs on SS Belt buckles out of factory, any leather tab found on a SS belt buckle was added privately. Up to the buyer to know if this tab was put on the SS Buckle during (SS soldier own preference) or after (to increase buckle's value) the war.
If we talk about a leather tab been placed on a SS Buckle DURING the Third Reich, since any SS buckle produced from 1931 could be still be worn by 1945, one could be able to find a perfectly original early nickel silver buckles (let's say marked O&C ges.gesch. - so produced BEFORE 1933/34) with a leather tab (former WH, LW or whatever) dated pre or post 1934.
The date shown on the tab will NEVER date the SS Buckle manufacture. It will just date the tab itself.