Leather Tabs On SS EM Buckles

[Jody]

Hello,
I have a question I have asked on the other buckle forum.

Why can you not find SS em buckles with leather tabs? I saw one SS em buckle by JFS with a leather tab in an article from the Military Advisor, but have never seen one in person. I have seen hundred of SS buckles.

For that matter, why can you not find SA or HJ buckles with tabs either? I have found Heer, KM, Luft, Police, RAD, etc, with tabs, but none of the above items.
Regards,
Jody

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Tab ? No Tab ?

Hi Jody,

This is a question nobody is able to explain as nobody knows the reason as of today. Each author as well as each researcher have his own idea, which is not often the same, but it remains just a guessing. So far there is no document to rely on.
I did not read the article in the Military Advisor (and by the way if you could scan this article for me and send it to my private email address I would appreciate) but I saw many JFS SS Buckles but as of today none with a leather tab. Does not mean there was none, but at least it is unusual. Another thing to condider is the private modification. I have in my collection, direct from a vet, a nickel Silver SS Buckle made by Overhoff with an unmarked brown leather tab. One can see it was made privately, and there is several SS Buckles with such kind of private addition. It is not common but there is some. Now, to say it was factory made, that is another thing I do not agree with yet.
For sure, some of the latest fakes from East Europe come with leather tabs marked C.T.Dicke or unmarked (at least these are the two I have seen). Of course these fakes are made to increase their value as any original SS buckle with leather tab, even been privately made, worth more than a regular one.
NOTE: Marc Verstraete has an SS EM aluminum 822/38 with leather tab which looks like been factory made since the leather is factory marked. The originality of the buckle with its tab is without contest, but one can ask if it was factory made for whatever reason or just a private order. I don't have the answer.
Anyway, if you want to read a lot of messages on this subject you can visit the SS Buckle forum. There was a long thread on it, with input from Tom Reid if I remember correctly. unfortunately you will leave without the answer to your question.
I am going to post my SS buckle with private addition of the leather tab since it is a very nice buckle anyway.
Please remember my little request - Thanks -

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Back

[Jody]

Many Thanks!

Hi Jean,
Many thanks for your comments. I no longer have the Military Advisor magazine, but my friend Tony now has it. I will ask him what issue it is.
Thanks,
Jody

[Patrick Dempsey]

SS buckle with tab.

Hello all,
I have the chance of possibly owning this buckle in the next few weeks, but as SS buckles are an entirely new field i would appreciate some words of wisdom...or indeed caution.
The Pictures were taken in a rush by myself, and so are not as good as i would like, but the full size versions show more detail than these.
My initial concern was the sheer brightness of the stitching on the tab itself (it really is that white in the flesh), but when you look at the condition of the front of the buckle, it is clear that this buckle was never worn in the field. The tab by the way is dated 1938. I have looked to see if it had been restitched at some point, but it bears no evidence of this.
Any way here is the front.

[Patrick Dempsey]

And the back.

The reverse of the above buckle.

All thoughts welcomed.

All the best,
Patrick.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Patrick,

Let's start with the most important: the buckle itself. This JFS SS buckle is original without a doubt. It was produced between 1943 and 1945 by Joseph Feix & Söhne. JFS SS Buckles, since they were produced during only two years, are very scarce and so, sell high.

Regarding its condition, this buckle was worn, and had been worn a lot since there is no paint remaining to the front. Details are still very good, but we can see they are not as sharp as when brand new.
On the back you also have distinctive polished marks where the leather belt rub to the buckle during a while. So, this buckle was worn but with no abuse.

Regarding the leather tab, SS Buckles were issued WITHOUT leather tabs, and even if they did, the date 1938 on the tab does not match the manufacture date of the buckle (1943 - 1945).
BUT there is several SS Buckles known and without a doubt original found with tab. These tab are either unmarked, either non matching the buckle (like your) and even if it is not 100% granted, they were certainly placed on the SS Buckle by the owner following a personal preference.

The problem with those tabs is that unscrupulous dealers are sometimes adding original tabs (from rusted/worn out WH, LW buckles etc...) to original SS buckles. Reason is obvious since they will ask a higher price for the end product. More unfortunately, some even more unscrupulous will add a reproduction tab to have once again more profit! It is up to the buyer to feel confident with what he sees: are tab and buckle overall aspect matching? Is stitching matching also? etc, etc... (questions you are asking right now)

But anyway keep in mind that, even if tab and SS buckle were together since the end of war, it is not a factory feature! It is just a personal preference, like if you are buying an army (WH) belt where the owner (who happened to be a SS soldier) wrote his name and information's. Up to the buyer to know how much more it worth to his eyes (and wallet).

If the price is good, at least buy it for the SS buckle. It is not too often you will find a JFS.

I let others more familiar with leather goods to say if the tab was period added or post war added.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

As an example, here is a FAKE SS Buckle with a FAKE tab originating from East Europe (Photo 1)

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

As an example, here is a FAKE SS Buckle with a FAKE tab originating from East Europe (Photo 2)

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

And here is an ORIGINAL SS Buckle with an ORIGINAL tab

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

And here is an ORIGINAL SS Buckle with an ORIGINAL tab

Note marks left by the leather on the buckle's catch.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

And here is an ORIGINAL SS Buckle with an ORIGINAL tab

Note marks left by the catch and prongs on the leather.

[Michael Kuligowski]

hello !!!
My english sucks... so discussion like that with advanced dictionary is always a problem ..
but if You will buy it... You should rip away this tab - it was sewn in after the war ( I should say.. about few months ago )
It is enough to look at he way of stitch and twine looks like..
best Regards, Mike

[Patrick Dempsey]

Thanks!

Hello Jean Pierre,
Thanks for the VERY informative reply, it's good to know that the buckle is real.The Production dates for "JFS" buckles is fascinating also and certainly solves the headache of this particular tab.
I hope the buckle will be offered to me again in the next week or so at which point i will snap it up.
By the way Mike i think your idea of some "Field surgery" on the tab may well take place

Thanks again,
Patrick.

[Gary Wood]

This is a buckle my one of my friends in russia has just offered me, I am still awaiting a photo of the full tab,
cheers,
gary