SS Buckle by Overhoff & Cie

[427 Cobra]

Now this is interesting. After viewing this post I emailed WeaponsCollector (Bob) to see if he still had the buckle. He confirmed that he sold it to you under the impression that it was fake. He also is very irate at you for taking advantage of him. He said he posted the pics asking for opinions on the buckle and you offered to buy it without giving him your opinion first. He said he sold it to you for $125 without knowing who you were until after the buckle was shipped. Is this true? If it is, I don't think that its right to withhold that kind of information just to get a good deal on a rare item. Have you offered him a chance to buy it back? For me personally, I would not be happy with myself if I knowingly took advantage of a fellow collectors lack of knowledge for my own personal gain.Some of you may not agree with me, but shouldn't there be honor among collectors and aren't we here to share information with those who ask for help?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Cobra,
He asked questions in September 2001 and I bought the buckle in February 2002. He had plenty of time to either get the right information, either to have sold the buckle to someone else. I just found a 5 monthes old dead thread browsing the archives and wanted to know more on a unknown buckle and asked, in the thread, if the buckle was still available, and signed with my usual signature, the same as here in this forum, with the SS BUckle Forum and the link. If the owner sold it to me under the impression it was a fake, who wanted to take advantage on who ??? Selling a fake for $125 is not too nice isn't it ?? If he didn't realize SS Buckle Forum means someone having above average knowledge on those, it is not my fault neither. At least I said the truth: before receiving it I still didn't know if the buckle was good or fake. I took my chances and I am happy to have done so since it is a good and rare one. Instead, as you said, your friend wanted to make a very good deal: sell a fake to someone else for $125. Very nice behavior, isn't it ?
So, if he is angry or whatever, so be it. It turned out it was not a fake and I didn't spent the requested price for nothing: I am happy. Your friend had his requested price and on the top has now the peace of mind to have not sold an expensive fake to someone else as he wanted to. So everyone has to be happy.

I am sure that when I received the buckle this one would had been a fake, you will not be here to spit your venom, Cobra ???
I am deeply sorry to do not be another collector f****d by someone else or a fake even if it could please you.

Regards

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Oh Cobra, I forgot ! When someone offers to buy something, isn't he supposed to buy because he believes it is a genuine item ???
I have in this forum and in the GD forum an add saying I am willing to buy any SS Buckle. Do you think I am seeking fakes of them ?? And why did you contact the fellow ?? You didn't want to buy the buckle also ?? Oh, I am sorry: I am a bad boy, you're not. If the seller still had the buckle and wanted to sell it to you for $125, I am sure you would have declined the offer and cut a deal for $500, right ??

[Marc verstraete]

Hello cobra, JP and all other collector FRIENDS!!

I do not wish to put oil on the fire, this is a dangerous subject.
I will tell a few stories’ and hope the subject will be closed after this.
I also do NOT take side of any one here.

I understand the point of few of the seller, he realise that he could have sold the buckle for more than $125 this hurts his feelings and this is human.
But I also have to agree with JP.
JP did not hide who he was; he has given a good explanation to the seller and took a chance to buy what was maybe a FAKE buckle.
The seller was indeed not very honest because he sold the buckle thinking that it was a fake for $125. This is indeed an interesting price for this buckle if real but much too much if it is fake. (I have bought good SS buckles at the MAX show for $100 and $175)
The intentions of the seller where obvious to deceive the buyer. Would he have return the $125 if JP had returned the buckle to him because it was indeed fake?? Honestly, what do you think?
A few weeks ago a Russian collector asked in this group if one of the buckles he had in his collection was fake or not. I appeared to be the most scares buckles in the EM SS buckles, the SS rotating swastika prototype! JP IMMEDIATELY identified the buckle as being what it was and did not try to tell the person in question that it was a fake to buy it for himself. He chaired this information with the TWO buckles groups!! He could easily have deceived the person by telling it was a fake LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE HAD DONE SO FAR WITH THIS PERSON!

A few years ago a very well know dealer in the US bought a pair of oak leaves with diamonds from a private person who considered they where EARRINGS !!!!!!! He bought them as being earrings for a few hundred $, should he have told the seller what they where and that they where worth many tens of thousands ??
A dealer bought a regimental flag at a garage sale for $100!! Should he have offered the seller a few thousands ?????
Two years ago I bought from a gun shop in Connecticut a small box of nazi items, this was a few days before the MAX show. In the box there was a flag pole top that I could not identify.
I displayed it on my table and the first person interested in this piece was an English dealer Mal.Fish. He asked me the price of the item and I honestly told him that I did not know exactly what it was and that I would appreciate some HONEST comments and appraisal of value, he answered me it was police and he could give me $400. Knowing what I had paid for this item I agreed with the price. 30 minutes later it was for sale for $2500 !! as a H. Goering police flag pole top. I did not even border saying anything, What could I do?? Ask to buy it back for the same amount I sold it for? like Cobra suggested to JP ??? I think I would have looked ridiculous.
I try to be honest in what I do and I think I am successful in this quest! The motto Honour and fidelity has still a VERY important meaning to me but at the end we are all wolfs in a pack and we all will eat the weakest.
Please let this unfortunate event not ruined the spirit of the group.
Who has never Sinn can throw the first stone.
Marc V.

[427 Cobra]

I think you are both missing the point here. I never said that you were not allowed to get a deal as a collector, dealer or whatever.Hell, everyone wants a deal. But, I agree with the sellers point about the fact that he was looking for info as to whether or not the buckle was real or fake and the buyer didn't offer his opinion until after he bought it. I don't think that the intent of the seller was to deceive the buyer for the fact that the buyer read all the posts regarding the buckle as being labeled a fake before he offered to buy it. Read the thread!! Also, I don't think that the seller had the item up for sale; the buyer approached the seller if I got the story straight. I'm sorry but I have to side with the seller on this one. He asked for help and got screwed. Jean, I'm not saying that you are a bad guy or anything, I just don't think its right to take avdantage of another collector asking for help.

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Cobra,
Please think whatever you please. Also do me a favor if one day you have a SS Buckle you want to sell: do not offer it to me because now you know how a bad and untrusted person I am. Above all I will not want to disappoint you once more.

At least you prove that, considering the numerous opinions given to this buckle by the "experts" in the other forum in September 2001 (all but one given it as a fake), you selected to chose my own version, which says it is an original and rare buckle. Thank You for promoting my personal image. You showed that the moderator in this Forum knows what he is talking about, and that's good. We all need reliable Forums dealing with reliable informations. Maybe some "experts" will take more time to study in the future.

unfortunately it seems that your main interest is not German buckles but gossip and uncalled accusations. So been the Moderator of this Forum, my duty is to advise you that this Forum is not the ground for such. Our interest is "German Belt Buckles" and not "Gossip Bitchy Behavior" even if initials are the same. I let you freely speak since I do not have anything to feel bad about, but we came to the end of it. If you are looking for a "Gossip Forum" and not a Belt and Buckle Forum, please feel free to post whatever please you in other Forums. Some seem to love this kind of things above all.

Thank You for this educative posts. At least we know now how one can prove a questionable buckle is original or fake. But one needs to invest his money first, which very few do.

Regards