SS Buckle by Overhoff & Cie

[Jody]

Hi Jean,
Welcome to the forum. I also collect buckles, although now I only have around ten or so, I sold a lot of them off through the years.

I still have some nice ones. One of my favorites still in my collection, is a SS em nickle buckle with the full makers logo Overhoff and Cie stamped on it. This differs than the ones by the same maker with just the makers initials.

My question is, how rare are these types of SS buckles with full maker marks?
Regards,
Jody

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Overhoff Nickel Silver

Hello Jody,

Much rarer than the common O&C ges.gesch, but there is another Overhoff marking which is in my opinion the rarest. Since recently I am working on comparison with die marks to know which one was the first marking and which one was the last one. Maybe the one I am talking about is in fact the first one been used by Overhoff, and not the one with full name, but unfortunately examples to study are not numerous !

If you are interested I can send you photos of this marking.

Regarding how rare they are, Overhoff Nickel Silver SS Buckles marked with O&C ges.gesch. are the most common of all Nickel Silver SS Buckles. For "my" experience, I found one with full name for each 30 or 40 of the other.

Best Regards

[Jody]

SS buckle

Hi Jean,
Please send me images of that maker mark. Many thanks!
Regards,
Jody

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Here you go

This buckle belongs to Jean Michel Blanc (France). I have also this buckle, but close up photo of the marking was not as nice as this one.

[Jody]

SS Buckle

Hi Jean,
Thanks for the picture. I saw a buckle hallmarked like that many years ago. Sadly, the vet was not willing to sell it.

I will be looking for one now.
Regards,
Jody

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Hello Jody,

As I told you, IMHO these are the rarest of all three Overhoff markings. Apart from the "square" lettering, please notice also the "G" in Ges. which is a capital letter, instead of the common one which is "g" .

Good luck in your quest !!

Regards

[Yuri D.]

Here is the logo from my SS officer's buckle:

<img src=http://www.bender-publishing.com/display/ssbuckle.jpg>

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Yuri,

Your SS officer buckle has the most common early marking from Overhoff, which is normal since it is an Officer buckle and I don't know (yet) a SS Officer buckle marked with either the Overhoff full motto or the second variant in the O&C Ges.gesch. we are talking. All the SS Officer Buckles known are either stamped like your, either stamped with a RZM logo along with this marking.

For EM, that is different since you can find three markings as shown on those buckles from my collection:

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

2nd

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

3rd

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

altogether

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

...and you still know that the day you could no longer stand this Overhoff SS Officer buckle I will be glad to find it a good home...

[Yuri D.]

Jean,

I know that out of anyone, you will appreciate the value and quality of these buckles.

Best,

Yuri

[427 Cobra]

There are pics posted on Germandaggers.com by weapons collector that have the capital "G" in the trademark stamping. Most everyone there says it is fake including Jody. The title of the thread is "SS buckle-genuine or garbage" posted on September 2, 2001 . Isn't this the same marking?

[Jean Pierre Redeuilh]

Yes, it is the exact same as the SS buckle in question is mine now. Only one member was clever to check other features as well and do not base his answer just because he didn't know this variant, and so not checking only the odd marking: MilitaryBuyer (John). When myself read the post, I didn't know this variant neither, but except for the odd marking, everything else was 100% correct, including a die defect visible on the back which was common to several originals Nickel Silver SS EM buckles made by Overhoff with the classical marking. In addition, there was no such perfectly made SS buckle known to be produced after war. So, I contacted the owner of the buckle and accepted his price for this buckle since I had two possibilities: either it was a very rare original variant, either it was a very new fake of extremely good quality using the genuine die from Overhoff. In both case, close examination to the marks left by the plying tool to bend sides of the buckle will provide me the answer (there is currently fakes made using original dies but there is no fake made using original die AND original folding tool together) as well as other elements not visible from a photo. Price was very correct so even if it was a fake, I could use it to post a new article about fakes within my SS Buckle Forum.
When I received the buckle, everything was matching 100% with all my Overhoff originals: die defects, folding tool marks, and even other marks left on the postsleeve assembly. Forgery was out of question and now confirmed. The only bad thing was the fact that the previous owner cleaned it to bright shine, so it will takes five to seven years before the Nickel Silver will be back to its dull yellowish look.
After I talked to several collectors about this new variant and force them to look in their collections, I found at least another one
in France which was in collection since decades. But so far, these are the only two I know right now, but I am sure that with the internet more will surface over time (like it is the case with the very rare steel EM SS Buckle marked 36/43).

So, in short, when one faces a fake or an original variant, he needs to perform an analysis of what he sees. Original variants are numerous, and some are still unknown by most of us (except for the owner and his close friends).
A variant will have a something which will be different from the most common known example we compare to, but everything else will be strictely identical, but instead a fake will have a something which will be matching the most common known example it looks to, but everything else will be different.