a pair of big cats

[101combatvet]

So must blame the brits, not us...

I can't remember the exact details as it was told to me by Atwater, but I believe the reason why it went to the Brits was that the Germans would not return it to the US after the loan time ran out. The only way we could get it back was to broker a deal with the Brits for a restoration, which the Germans agreed to have done. When the Brits got it, they stalled on the restoration, and things started to get fraudulent. It was a seriously big mess until it was returned. Lessons learned, don't trust anyone.

[101combatvet]

The Germans were complicit as well.
It was initially on loan to them as well as the PzII.
They were going to restore and return it.
I believe they decided it was theirs and were going to keep it.
Much finagling and posturing with legal actions tossed in.
They still have the PzII.

This is correct. I never heard about the PzII. I do know that some General gave the Czechs a restored Panzer 35(t).

[Lloyds]

I can't remember the exact details as it was told to me by Atwater, but I believe the reason why it went to the Brits was that the Germans would not return it to the US after the loan time ran out. The only way we could get it back was to broker a deal with the Brits for a restoration, which the Germans agreed to have done. When the Brits got it, they stalled on the restoration, and things started to get fraudulent. It was a seriously big mess until it was returned. Lessons learned, don't trust anyone.

I was told the Germans were reluctant to give the tiger back to the US .Atwater asked a British collector to help get it back and he did so running up a huge legall bill and a costly transport back to the UK and Atwater said to him thanks but we havent the money to pay you back and so it stood in the UK for a few years .Dont know if the collector ever got his money back

[ENGLISH BOB]

I was told the Germans were reluctant to give the tiger back to the US .Atwater asked a British collector to help get it back and he did so running up a huge legall bill and a costly transport back to the UK and Atwater said to him thanks but we havent the money to pay you back and so it stood in the UK for a few years .Dont know if the collector ever got his money back

I doubt for one moment Kevin would have shipped it back to the States without being paid what he was owed for his time and trouble.I know he likes to spend a few quid but shipping items without payment first is not the way he operates ,that is just bad for business....

When his 2 Tiger I's and the 2 Tiger II's rebuilds are finished and start making appearances at place like War & Peace, Bovington are going to have up there game let alone the Americans.I think in the States the powers that be fail to realise the draw these German AFV can bring and the money they can generate,nobody wants to look at static exhibits when you can watch them and hear them moving around under there own power...

[101combatvet]

I was told the Germans were reluctant to give the tiger back to the US .Atwater asked a British collector to help get it back and he did so running up a huge legall bill and a costly transport back to the UK and Atwater said to him thanks but we havent the money to pay you back and so it stood in the UK for a few years .Dont know if the collector ever got his money back

Atwater used the Brit to convince the Germans that he could restore it for them. The closet deal with the Brit was that it would eventually come back to the US, not Germany. The actual restoration started, and I'm not sure how that was negotiated; however, it may have been you pay for transportation, restoration, and then return it to the States after a loan period. The same deal we had with the Germans. I do recall the thing was in pieces, and then I heard a few parts went on the market, not sure how true that is. At that point, some DOD lawyers got involved. Not sure how funding was arranged, but I do recall Atwater trying to get money allocated for the shipment back to the States. Apparently, the money was earmarked for that purpose; getting the Tiger back was Atwater's big accomplishment before his retirement.

[101combatvet]

I doubt for one moment Kevin would have shipped it back to the States without being paid what he was owed for his time and trouble.I know he likes to spend a few quid but shipping items without payment first is not the way he operates ,that is just bad for business....

When his 2 Tiger I's and the 2 Tiger II's rebuilds are finished and start making appearances at place like War & Peace, Bovington are going to have up there game let alone the Americans.I think in the States the powers that be fail to realise the draw these German AFV can bring and the money they can generate,nobody wants to look at static exhibits when you can watch them and hear them moving around under there own power...

I agree with you; however, our museum system isn't set up that way and probably never will be. Our museums are free to the public, so that scenario isn't likely to happen any time soon.

[merdock]

So must blame the brits, not us...

Please stop using Brits we can't use the shortened Japanese version so why us the other .
English first British second,
Mark

[ENGLISH BOB]

Please stop using Brits we can't use the shortened Japanese version so why us the other .
English first British second,
Mark

Agreed Mark,i hate Brits its bastardised ,I'm English hence English Bob not Brit Bob

[tony james]

There's a small booklet called "Tiger without a home " written by Richard Cox that was being sold at the aberdeen museum back in the 90's .

[Lloyd I.]

We are talking about Kevin Wheatcroft correct in regards to the Tiger I? Why not just use the mans name?

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...ollection.html

[Gran Sasso]

They still have the PzII.

yes we do, and the Marder - both were lent to us for 99 years

[101combatvet]

yes we do, and the Marder - both were lent to us for 99 years

I believe Benning has a PZ II, I don't remember the one at Aberdeen. However, I do recall the PZ I which was restored.

[BB75]

I remember the PII and the Marders. (:

Gotta get me one of those apps that puts a red line across the photo "Do Not Copy." Ha ha.

APG really was the place. Never been to Bovington, or Paderborn, or Kublinka but did not need to since I lived in Maryland. What a line up of big tank gun barrels, with T-34/85s farther down the row. In the glare of the side view photo of the Panzer II can sort-of be seen the dutiful APG soldier wearing helmet liner walking patrol and keeping misfits from climbing on the vehicles.

Square Kodak Instamatic and Polaroid photos taken in the 1970s when I was a little punk. The bonus picture of the T-62(?) taken in the Eighties or Nineties. It and several others were parked by the roadside about 1/2 mile from the main display. No one around so we climbed in and on them. The T-62 had a hole about 30mm in diameter punched in the roof of the turret - maybe from some misunderstanding between our Arab and Israeli brethren? One of the turretless T-54/55s still had ammo in a rack, retained by rubber bungie cords...no lie. I started to remove a round and then my Spider-sense began tingling "Leave that alone" and I am here to tell the tale.

Cheers.