Announcement

**Peter J.** · 01-12-2020, 02:26 PM

Hi Jesus,

Many thanks for posting this compilation of DAO documents.

I’ve often emphasized the importance of a humble approach to this topic, as there are many aspects still not accounted for. This post is a good example of how complex this topic really is. The regulations in the announcements are easy to comprehend, but the end product (choice of wording on the cases and documents) isn’t always consistent.

As for the documents, the wording “Verdienstkreuz/Stern des Orden vom Deutschen Adler” seems consistent on awards before the Dec. 1943 and later “Deutschen Adlerorden”. Adding to the confusion are the two in post “19” and “29”:

“19”: the awardee is an Oberst, hence the “Erste Stufe” in conjunction with the award-date (Nov. 1943) is perfectly legit. The confusing part is the wording “Deutschen Adlerorden (which was not implemented before Dec. 1943), but the reason for this (as mentioned by Chris) might be the time period between the official awarding (Nov. 2 1943) and the actual handing out of the set (probably early 1944). Even though this is a typical Swedish name, I assume the awardee is Finnish, as I don’t find his name in the list I have of Swedish awardees. Furthermore it’s been suggested the awarding of DAO’s to Swedes ceased after 1942.

“29”: the same thing can be said about this document.

Another interesting aspect is the change from “Der Deutsche Reichkanzler” to “Der Führer”. The latter can be traced back to May.21 1942.

With this said, it’s obvious we need to research this topic further. I’m sorry if I sound like parrot, but please try to use the correct definitions in future discussions i.e. “Stufe” versus “Klasse” and we can avoid unnecessary misunderstandings. I'm looking forward to the continuation of this thread.

cheers
Peter

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**ironfist** · 01-12-2020, 04:14 PM

nice

Gentlemen ………
Outstanding work just Outstanding.

**marisca lrommel** · 01-13-2020, 01:09 AM

Thanks for your contributions Chris.

I keep, with your permission, the images of your award certificates in my personal library.

They have drawn my attention a lot, especially that of the medal I had not seen so far.

I think it was never used since I have not seen one of these completed on behalf of anyone.

I imagine that this is because Germany was too focused on other matters of vital importance for the development of the war to be interested in changing and distributing the new documents properly by withdrawing those of previous design.

As Chris indicates, I have not seen any award certificate with the word "Klasse" reflected in them.

We must also highlight the data provided by fellow Peter J., a great collector and expert in the field that seems correct to me.

**marisca lrommel** · 01-13-2020, 01:28 AM

As mentioned, there is a mix of designs in the awards given in recent years.

For example, this First Class awarded to Oberst Gustav Ivar Backlund.

This set shows a First Class of 1943 (SASH), the Concession has the characteristics of the previous documents with the legend "IN THE NAMEN DES DEUTSCHES REICHES" in reference to the Führer indicates "DER DEUTSCHE REICHSKANZLER" and, nevertheless, the case of the medal clearly indicates "Deutscher Adlerorden I. Klasse mit Schwertern" (The legend shown belongs to another case. Hence, indicate that it is a model with swords)

in this case, a document with the design prior to the entry into force of the new ordinances was used as it should have shown the phrases "IN NAMEN DES DEUTSCHES VOLKES" and "THE FUHRER"

In my opinion, this Oberst was awarded the first class in 1942 (he should have received a German Eagle Order from the neck) but as he received the Order physically after the publication of the new Ordinances (December 27, 1943), he was sent the decoration that now held the first-class denomination, that is the SASH that we see in the images

Attached Files

**marisca lrommel** · 01-13-2020, 01:34 AM

According to the regulations, it should show in the award certificate the name
"Erster Klasse":

Attached Files

regulación 43 recorte.jpg (18.5 KB, 65 views)

**dastardly** · 01-13-2020, 07:07 AM

Thank you to all whom have contributed to this very informative thread. One other observation no one has mentioned or addressed yet is that most documents encountered are all printed in black letters, yet there are versions where the heading "Im Namen des Deutschen Reiches" and "Im Name des Deutschen Volkes" is done in bright gold. Both versions of course existed at the time and I have found no correlation to one's rank or position in whether one received a black version or a gold version document. This is surely just a difference in the department or company contracted to print the documents at the time. Again, great information! Chris

**marisca lrommel** · 01-13-2020, 07:52 AM

In my opinion this detail may be typical of the design according to what time .....

Look at these examples:

in photo 1, a Grand Cross award certificate for an Italian Diplomat with the legend "IN NAMEN DES DEUTSCHES REICHES" in black color dated 1938

in photo 2, same award certificate dated 1939 for a Spanish General

There were also differences, depending on the importance of the recipient. Look at photo 3 where the name of Benito Mussolini is shown with golden letters and yet "IN NAMEN DES DEUTSCHES REICHES" in black

Attached Files

**Peter J.** · 01-13-2020, 09:57 AM

Thanks for your kind words Jesus, but I prefer “profoundly interested”.

The set you’re referring to is another of mr Turk’s “put-together-groups” (Emedals) and should be viewed as such. It contains one Deutscher Adlerorden 1.Klasse, one Verdienstkreuz des Ordens vom Deutschen Adler Erster Stufe (1942), a document folder with a golden embossed eagle, the 1939 regulations of “Des Verdienstordens vom Deutschen Adler” and a letter from the period 1937-39. The was no case in the sales description from mr Turk. I have no issues about originality, but the documents are most likely added to the 1.Klasse in order to enhance the value (or plain ignorance), as they most definitely don’t fit together. The suggestion of a later awarded 1.klasse can of course be contemplated, but there is one major problem, Backlund never received the 1.Klasse. The suggestion from mr Turk that he was “likely” a member of the Swedish Military Attach(?) in Berlin is only wishful thinking.

The letter is addressed to “Överstelöjntnant” (Oberst-Lt) Backlund, which was his rank from 1937-39. He was promoted to “Överste” (Oberst) 1940, when he became Regimental Commander of “Dalaregementet” to 1944 and was awarded the “Verdienstkreuz des Ordens vom Deutschen Adler Erster Stufe” in 1942. Generalmajor 1946 and Generallöjtnant 1957. With that said, both decoration and document are consistent with what he actually received. The 1.Klasse shouldn’t even be considered in this specific case, as Backlund’s rank made it impossible for him to receive such high a decoration.

cheers
Peter

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**Wim Vangossum** · 01-13-2020, 12:23 PM

A very interested thread. Thank you for the hard work Marisca. It are people like you who make the difference in our hobby. I will consult with my colleague to keep this thread under attention.

Regards, Wim

**marisca lrommel** · 01-14-2020, 01:14 AM

Thanks Wim.

Pete I had not noticed the details that you comment ... if this is so, it is a conjunction of documents added to a decoration that was not really granted to the character in question ... anyway, I put that example because I have no other similar in my personal library and I wanted to imply that it was very possible and it often happened that, despite having received an award from the regulations of 1943, the accompanying document had the characteristics of the previous regulations, quite possibly because the stock that existed of documents was used until it was finished or because, as I said, sometimes a prize was awarded in 1942 according to the regulations of 1939 and, when it was received (after 1943) the medal was received according to the new regulations so that if in 1942 you were awarded a third class and the document stipulated that you were deserving of a third class class, when they sent you the prize, in 1943, you could rec go a neck order, instead of the cross enameled with ribbon to catch on the chest. This is not evidence based ... it's just a thought of mine

**Peter J.** · 01-14-2020, 10:33 AM

Jesus, as suggested by both Chris and you, this is quite possible. Even though your choice for illustration was unfortunate (the fact that Backlund could never be eligible for the 1.Klasse and that he was a Swede), one can’t expect you to have the same access to Swedish public libraries as I do. Either way your theory about a time-gap in awarding makes sense.

I’ve some philosophical thoughts on this topic I’d like to share though.

We as collectors are driven by an urge to find out all the “un-known” facts in our hobby. This is natural because it’s related to the general consensus regarding originality, provenance, prices etcetera. As can be seen in this thread (and others), we’ve come long way in grasping the basic conditions, but still got a long way to go. I’m sure we’ll eventually find more knowledge by studying more material and make plausible conclusions, but during this journey we have to be careful not to address specifics as bible, unless it can be supported by reasonable arguments. This part is not addressed to any specific individual(s), but rather a general expectation of future fruitful discussions.

cheers
Peter

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**marisca lrommel** · 01-14-2020, 11:27 AM

Totally agree Peter ... I have screwed up myself sometimes and later, when I have seen clear evidence I have realized that I was not right in some detail.

I have no problem admitting it even if you sometimes think that I believe I am a God in this matter ... nothing is further from it ... I am only a collector who, in his day, specialized in the decoration he liked most .. .he has now given me the German diplomatic material and I have a little forgotten my dear friend the order of the German eagle

**Peter J.** · 01-14-2020, 11:54 AM

I wouldn't call it God, enthusiastic is more appropriate and my motto is "live and let live". I hope the diplomatic interest doesn't rule out the DAO.

cheers
Peter

**marisca lrommel** · 01-15-2020, 12:03 PM

More info: with the award certificate the winner received a copy of the regulations of the German Eagle Order as it is:

Attached Files

**Peter J.** · 01-15-2020, 12:55 PM

Jesus, can you confirm these 4 pages are the total contents of this publication?

cheers
Peter

Announcement

The German Eagle Order Regulations and award certificates

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