SS-Zivilabzeichen Fakes / Fälschungen

[JoeW]

Wim, there is obviously some differences in the number dies that were used. My "1" is significantly different from yours yet also displays the sharp edges of the number stamps including the sharp line edge of the numbers. Mine is a six digit number- 107123. But I have a five digit pin with number 70864 with a similar style "7". Here is an image of the first numbers but not at significant magnification. I am having a problem with the scope getting close enough because of the pin placement.



The earlier pin has a darker finish on the reverse. But both display the consistent characteristic of the attachment of the pin to the reverse of the disc where the pin displays a flare or flange at the point of connection.

[jack1]

Keep up the good work Jo. But stop scare me like hell; I got al lot of that black enamel


Regards, Wim

Yes but the waf have expelled him, who dares to speak the truth.
Very sad day for the forum.

[Jcarey46]

There are several images which do not show up. However the general overall pictures of the badges, I believe Jo R has shown, are impossible to verify authenticity with. The same goes for one single microscopic image. As he also showed depending on casting technique it may be difficult to determine from one feature such as a single number if the item is cast or not. you need images of multiple numbers, letters, the outside edge of the badge ect. to be able to evaluate the entirety of the badge.

[Pac-Man]

Hi
I am new here. Would you ever see a SS Zivilabzeichen with markings ges gesch, rzm and m1/172? Not seen any examples marked like this. Picked it up from a flea market in Poland.
Many thanks

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi
I am new here. Would you ever see a SS Zivilabzeichen with markings ges gesch, rzm and m1/172? Not seen any examples marked like this. Picked it up from a flea market in Poland.
Many thanks

No, these markings are not good I'm afraid.


Regards, Wim

[Seiler]

No, these markings are not good I'm afraid.


Regards, Wim

Wim ,is absolutely correct.Markings are bogus.Seiler

[JoeW]

Hi
I am new here. Would you ever see a SS Zivilabzeichen with markings ges gesch, rzm and m1/172? Not seen any examples marked like this. Picked it up from a flea market in Poland.
Many thanks

The SS Zivilabzeichen was the creation and property of the SS and not subject to RZM regulation or taxation of manufacturers.

[Pac-Man]

Thanks for your fast responses! I paid only a few £ for it so I am not too upset. I also picked up an nsdap pin badge which I suspect to be a recreation. The pin is seemeingly rack welded onto the back and the only visible markings on the back are a portion of an eagle and the last few digits of a number. From the other examples I have seen the fixing method of the pin does not seem right

[JoeW]

The images posted by the thread starter have all been removed. His cooments are worthless without the images. This beginning of this thread is useless especially with the obvious fakes he used as examples.

[Volksturmer]

Jo Rivett did some excellent work with his Mircroscope.
Where is he now?

I saw that a lot of sites banned him, but I was never clear on why. What did he do that was so wrong??
Anyone want to explain.
Or is this a better subject to Passover?
If so,
sorry I brought it up...
J

[Zirnhelt]

Jo Rivert has his own website. Parteiabzeichen.ch

[Volksturmer]

Regarding Jo Rivett's doubters and Haters:

'I know what you are trying to say, but answering you is not my job. I will not take that job on my shoulders, it would take an army of researchers. I am just telling you the Unvarnished Truth, and if you don’t agree, that is your problem, probably because you are dedicated to selling and dealing in Fakes. If you had a microscope like me, you would realize. And if you do have a microscope, you are using it incorrectly or have an ulterior motive.

And please - to those who doubt Jo Rivett - as regards to your direct questions, I may answer it in my next book. Or it will be answered in Jo's next book.

And - I feel strongly - You expelled Jo because he brought the Truth to you and you couldn’t handle it! He exposed fakes! If you asked valid questions, so what if he insulted you instead of answering your direct questions? It just shows how much more clever he is than you! '

That's all I got so far from reading the posts, pro and con, being a late-comer and outsider. friendly greetings, I offer to all - I am as neutral as a Swiss Cheese.

John

[SiPo]

Regarding Jo Rivett's doubters and Haters:

'........ I am just telling you the Unvarnished Truth, and if you don’t agree, that is your problem, probably because you are dedicated to selling and dealing in Fakes. If you had a microscope like me, you would realize. And if you do have a microscope, you are using it incorrectly or have an ulterior motive.

..... You expelled Jo because he brought the Truth to you and you couldn’t handle it! He exposed fakes! John

Dear oh dear, here we go again. Woe betide anyone doubting the Mighty micro Jo!!! Blasphemers the lot of us, stone us, stone us!!!!

You are quite correct, Jo does extremely good work and has been an invaluable asset to the collecting community and will continue to be.

However, he also gets things wrong like the rest of us and it is the reluctance to accept this human failing that releases the diatribe that a lot of us faced along with the attempts to ruin reputations with false accusations such as you have suggested above.

Sorry if you disagree but it was his constant vitriolic retorts that caused his demise not some twisted conspiracy.

If Jo was willing to take his "dickhead" cap off when being challenged I for one would like to see him back but I feel there is no way he could be humble enough to admit his mistakes and keep his "Mighty Micro Jo" ego in the box.

[Volksturmer]

Sipo,

I actually agree with you 100%.

Since I came late to this whole controversy, I think it's unfair for me to attack someone who can't defend himself, and I wasn't here like you were for the main event. So I am trying to stay neutral about it.


So, all I had to go by was the posts as they stand.
And so, I was being facetious about Jo and the people who defend Jo -

thus I wrote - from what I've read from the posts - as if I am Jo or a Jo Rivett Fan:

Regarding Joe Rivett's Doubters and Haters -

and I put the following in quotes; to show the pro-Rivett folks arguments:

''(Jo Rivett and His Supporters seem to say) "I know what you are trying to say, but answering you is not my job.(Direct Jo Rivett quote from this thread - which is very arrogant IMO). I will not take that job on my shoulders, it would take an army of researchers. I am just telling you the Unvarnished Truth, and if you don’t agree, that is your problem, probably because you are dedicated to selling and dealing in Fakes. If you had a microscope like me, you would realize. And if you do have a microscope, you are using it incorrectly or have an ulterior motive. (Another satirical take on Rivett's responses.)

And please - to those who doubt Jo Rivett - as regards to your direct questions, I may answer it in my next book. Or it will be answered in Jo's next book. (Satire on Jo and his supporters - we'll show you - one day!)

And - I feel strongly - You expelled Jo because he brought the Truth to you and you couldn’t handle it! He exposed fakes! (More satire - he was obviously expelled because he blamed the critics and insulted them instead of answering them.)
If you asked valid questions, so what if he insulted you instead of answering your direct questions? (Again, a slam on the way Jo answered his critics).

It just shows how much more clever he is than you!" (Which is of course a ridiculous argument. Thus ends of my hypothetical take on Jo Rivett and Jo Rivett's staunchest supporters.

You notice, I didn't sign my name in the quotes as you quoted me 'All of this bull crap, signed John.'.

I said - that's all I got out of Jo and his defenders' posts. I'm staying neutral, and am speaking strictly as an outsider - but that is what I see, although I am as neutral as a Swiss cheese.

Sipo, I DO appreciate your comments, very much indeed. You were there and know what happened. I am just guessing from reading the old posts. I appreciate your balanced comments: you say that Jo did some excellent work. I thought that he was onto something, also, as far as I could tell. However, from his responses - he never seemed to answer a direct question, rather he dodged questions or answered with bitter sarcasm. The microscope is probably a wonderful tool in our hobby. But, freinds of mine bought microscopes, and when they questioned Jo on his findings compared to theirs, he ducked them or ignored them.

Sipo, I also agree with you that he was Lionized by some of his supporters, who seem to think he was martyred or crucified instead of expelled. As if he did no wrong. Those supporters, and his attitude and answers, are what I was making fun of in my 'quotes'. So don't add John inside the quotes, add them outside.

Now matter how much I try, I always wind up writing too damned much, and then I wind up confusing everyone, and myself. Which takes more words to finally straighten out.

Again - Sipo - I agree with your attitude and take 100% - so please don't lump me into one side. I am just making a satirical statement about how Jo and some of his supporters posted. I actually sent an email to a friend on WAF, before this original post, almost word for word, except that I added that Jo's way of dodging honest questions with smartass comments was a bunch of horse dung.
Hopefully, he will learn a wee bit of humility and come back. And I'm sure most of us would welcome him, if he could find the humility. Jo, it's not so bad, and you have so much to offer. I've eaten so much crow in my time that it's beginning to taste good. Jo - if you are reading this - humility and admitting you are wrong only hurts for a little while. Take it from an expert.

Thanks Sipo for your comments.
Your pal,
John

[SiPo]