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**Dmv** · 12-24-2011, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Br. James View Post

To Mike Clayton:

You've raised an interesting question in the measurements of the Stahlhelm helmets, one which I have never looked into closely. My collection includes all of the Commemorative (dated) Badges from 1919 through 1932 plus the Civilian example, the pin-backs, the NS version, the Frauenstahlhelm (one of the most beautiful badges in any of my collections), the Jungstahlhelm and the Wehrsportkreuz des Stahlhelm. The helmet on the Wehrsportkreuz measures 20mm wide and that on the Civilian Badge at 20mm, but the Commemorative Badges includes helmets of varying widths. This is, in part, due to the fact that the 1919 and the 1920 (transition year) badges at 35mm diameter have a proportionately slightly larger helmet at 22mm, but those from 1921 through 1932 vary between 20mm and 21mm: my 1921 and my 1923 through 1929 are all 20mm wide but my 1922, 1930, 1931 and 1932 are all 21mm wide. For many years I was of the opinion of most of the early authors on the subject that only one manufacturer was involved with turning out the Stahlhelm badges -- at least those marked "STH" since I took the authors at their word that "STH" referred to the firm of Steinhauer & Luck -- but recently someone on the WAF (it may have been Wim Vangossum?) mentioned that "STH" actually stood for Der Stahlhof, the national headquarters of the Stahlhelm Bund and meaning that the badges carrying that logo were from manufacturers licensed to produce them. He also said that at least three or four manufacturers were involved over the years, though none of the badges carried the actual manufacturer's name/logo. This would account for the slight difference in the size of the raised helmet on various badges, and would probably also account for the fact that some Commemorative Badges are die-stamped with an "A" and others are marked "935" for fine silver content, though not all Commemorative Badges have one or the other mark.

I am also fascinated by Mike Rich's comment that the presence or absence of an EK on a Stahlhelm badge helmet refers to "Combatant" or "Non-Combatant" status -- I had never hear that before!

Br. James

Just a quick note:
-der Stahlhof: it was W. Saris, do a search on these badges in the Freikorps/Weimar forum.
-A stands for Alpacca (nickel Silver), 935 for silver content and no mark=no silver
-for the iron cross on the helmet, this was worn by members of the Kern-Stahlhelm and it's members were front soldiers or free corps combatants.
-the other has a ring for the motto and was for the Ring-Stahlhelm.

Check the book Headgear of Hitlers Germany vol.2 p. 206-210 on the different Stahlhelm pins.

Perhaps the author of the book Wilhelm Saris could inform us more.

Wilhelm?

**wilhelm Saris** · 12-25-2011, 07:31 AM

In a while a 15-page article just about the honor badges (badges with the year numbers) will be published in the "Military Advisor". The article will be in detail with about 70 photographs, showing all years that were granted with their documents etc.
The article is being prepaired along with my old Stahlhelm-mentor from Germany, who owns over 200 of such badges with year numbers, including various from 1918. When the article will be included in the magazine I do not know as at this moment I am checking the lay-out for the article!

It is planned the article will be later in 2012 translated and published also in a German collector's magazine!

**Br. James** · 12-25-2011, 09:28 AM

Great news, Wim; I'm sure many of us will look forward to having this expanded reference material at hand! And please accept my apologies for mis-remembering where I had learned about the true meaning of "STH" and that there were a number of manufacturers who made the Stahlhelm Bund badges. No offense meant, only the greatest respect!

I'm grateful that Dmv added his note to further enlarge our/my understanding of the elements of these badges.

And to John: so sorry, but I have no ability to post electronic pix, but many thanks for your compliment!

A very Merry Christmas to all,

Br. James

**wilhelm Saris** · 12-25-2011, 12:59 PM

Hello Br. James,

why should I feel offended or whatever? Myself I told various of my friends in Europe or the USA the true meaning for the STH-abbreviation for many, many, possibly even 25 years or more!
And who in fact manufactured these badges? The Stahlhof did not want to make public the names for the manufacturers officially for reasons they did not want any competition between the various manufacturers. That's a simple fact!

best regards and later enjoy the article,
wilhelm

**juoneen** · 12-25-2011, 01:30 PM

Question:

Are there any examples of the hollow helmet pins without the cross with a silver mark. I have one with an 800 on the bottom flat , but cant recall if it has the cross or not. Just wanted to ask, if anyone knows for sure. Thanks

**Br. James** · 12-26-2011, 06:23 PM

Hi juoneen,

I have one with and one without an EK, though neither of them has a silver mark. Sorry I can't help.

Br. James

**juoneen** · 12-26-2011, 09:14 PM

James...I have one with an 800 as stated above..checked last evening, and both of mine are the cross type helmet....maybe ill post the photo later for documentation....in the meantime , to those who have the pinback hollow helmets, check yours and see if yours is 800 marked. Thanks for the answer.

**juoneen** · 12-27-2011, 12:05 AM

My apologies..

I must correct my mistake about the badge having an 800....i just checked , and it has A&S ges gesch....so I apologise for my mistake, and the moderator may delete those posts . I was wrong , and formally must post the correction here anyway.

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