Please help with SS pin.

[Silesien]

Those 4 enamel badges = all fake , j-u-n-q-u-e. The NSKK medallion is sold by Reddick Enterprises, in their color on-line catalog, as item #0107-300-010.

[STRADALE]

The three with the "clipped" pins would not be in my collection.

I can't speak on the NSKK, but it looks to be modern enamel work. Would help if we could see the back of it as well.

Hope you don't have a lot into these. Investment in time in the forums is priceless when it comes to collecting.

I don't have any $ into them, they were given to me by someone who thought they were probably fake.

I'd love to learn why, could you/the last poster share with me any knowledge/specifics of why they are fake or "j-u-n-q-u-e. "?

I just ordered 2 of Wittmans books on edged weapons. What book/s w/ info on these kind of pins would you recommend for a brand new novice ?? TIA for your help.

[Silesien]

If you read the previous postings about these, in this thread & in other similar postings of these badges over & over again, you'll see that one reason they are fakes is because they all have the wierd 'clipped' pin-plate, another is because of the ridiculous combinations of markings on them, or made-up RZM codes, & the not-up-to-par enameling. Another way is to inspect these items in person at Reddick's table @ the MAX or the SoS, where you'll see them in see-thru plastic bags, each with a little import tag "Made in Taiwan", or "Made in England". They are j-u-n-q-u-e because they are virtually worthless,- what they are actually "worth", is the individual wholesale cost of producing them in Taiwan, which with the cheap labor involved, is pennies on the dollar. Reddick's price in lots of 25 each, is $3.oo each, but that's the catalog or show selling price, not the price of production of each in Taiwan.

[STRADALE]

Thanks so much. That's really helpful.

Brand new in the bag with a tag: "Made in Taiwan" would be a dead giveaway huh?

RE: The "pin plate" - What's your opinion on this one?

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi Stradile,

The fact is there are no good books about enamel on the marked. Cone's old book "Enameled organizational badges of Germany" is a bit out of date, the same counts for several others. The last book: "NSDAP enamel" has quality pictures to compare but no much text to learn from.

It's just a question of building up knowledge and take notes of ever infor you can find on the net:


The Ludendorff badge exist but is ultra rare. It's almost impossibble to find an original example. The man was put aside by the nazi's long before the RZM came into the game. So also here no RZM mark etc...

If you come across an M1/4 badge be carefull, it is used on many fakes. Just like M1/129. This firm in real received his M/1 license very late into the period so you will not find genuine party pins, slogan pins etc with this number.
"M1/129" says simply "stay away from me! "

Regards, Wim

[Wim Vangossum]

Thanks so much. That's really helpful.

Brand new in the bag with a tag: "Made in Taiwan" would be a dead giveaway huh?

RE: The "pin plate" - What's your opinion on this one?

Looks promising: one of those original red swastika badge makers used his M9number on his pins.

Regards, Wim

[STRADALE]

Wim,
REALLY interesting, appreciate it very much.
Regards,
Gregg

[STRADALE]

Hi Robert,

The original SS pin was called SS-Zivilabzeichen. It was much smaller in size, with silvered runes instead of white enamel. Always in the form of a stickpin and never with an RZM code. Two manufacturers: Ferdinand Hoffstätter en Otto Gahr.

Regards, Wim

What about "SS Personel dressed in civilian clothes". Would that make this a fake?

http://www.blackforestregalia.com/Product.aspx?id=N0179

The SS pin in the first post of this thread sure looks exactly like the one in the above link.

I'm not experienced w/ the different dealers so don't know who is reputable. They offer a Certificate of Authenticity on it.

[Wim Vangossum]

yep, it's a clear fake. I have my personal thought about dealers who make such horrible "mistakes". They can't hide themselve behind the word newbie or novice.

Regards, Wim

[JoeW]

What about "SS Personel dressed in civilian clothes". Would that make this a fake?

http://www.blackforestregalia.com/Product.aspx?id=N0179

The SS pin in the first post of this thread sure looks exactly like the one in the above link.

I'm not experienced w/ the different dealers so don't know who is reputable. They offer a Certificate of Authenticity on it.

And the COA only costs an additional $5. What a deal! I wonder how that COA works with the 3-day inspection they give you.

[STRADALE]

Man. Scary. Getting taken for $500 would really suck!

Is there anything else that obviously jumps out at you guys as also being fake?

http://www.blackforestregalia.com/Pr...=German%20WWII

I was on this thread few weeks back asking about reference material. Green as can be beginner in the hobby, haven't purchased anything yet, just own a small collection of WW2 Japanese & US stuff that was brought home from WW2 by my father in law - Arisaka (Type 44) rifle, Japanese prayer flags, officers sword, machete, M8 knife, his dog tags, his purple heart, tons of occupation money & a whole bunch of other interesting stuff. Taking ownership of his possessions recently is what sparked my interest. Live in NY so plan to go to the Max show Sept 29 w/ my wife.

Anyway ordered the below & in the process of reading:

"Exploring The Dress Daggers Of The German Luftwaffe" - Wittman
"Exploring The Dress Daggers Of The German SS" - Wittman
"The SS Hitler's Instrument of Terror" - G. Williamson HC
"World War 2 German War Booty a Study in Photographs"- Thomas Johnson
"Detecting the Fakes A collectors guide to 3rd reich militaria"- Lumbson (ordered today)

If anyone has anything they can recommend, would appreciate it.

[sjl]

I had a hard time finding any original badges, medals or pins on that site. Just enough real low-end paper and tinnies to make you wonder. Keep away from these scam artists. No one can honestly be as dumb as that.

I did see an original Westwall medal at $99 - about 4 or 5 times the going price.

[STRADALE]

Could you recommend reputable dealers?

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far have only found:

http://www.wwiidaggers.com/SSDAG.htm

http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com/

Would be great if anyone could help listing some other sites. Thanks in advance.

How about: ??
http://www.germanwarbooty.com/Catalog.htm

[Jo Rivett]

If you come across an M1/4 badge be carefull, it is used on many fakes.

Wim, ou maat Hope your Country is not sinking into Anarchy with no leadership at the moment, maybe i will make a trip up to help out, i have some great ideas !

When any small enamel badge, that bears the Makers number RZM M1/4 is shown, is is most likely to be on a pure Fantasy badge (like the SS buttons) or on a very rare badge, like the Ludendorff. Most of the time, especially in cases like the SS fantasy badge, it is OK to simply say..

Fantasy... but sometimes, more information is needed, like Wim just gave relating to the Ludendorff Badge. Then again, like i have always stated, Basic Historical Facts should always come before any heated debate about what could be, and what "might be".

A sad fact, as can be read even on this forum in many post by the People who claim to be the experts, is that, i would place a few dollars bet that none of them do their own Homework at all, and are just relaying what they have read, or heard somewhere before.

A few years ago, on another forum, there was the same question about a Fake badge marked with RZM M1/4 by some guy, who is also a Moderator here and supposedly has a collection of only rare and fantastic stuff, he was adamant that his little badge was rare and original. He would not listen to facts, or guidance or anything, and in fact our little "conversation" almost got me banned.

I guess it is only fair that i share some proper, solid Information with the "Elite" here every now and then, seeing as how i have been able to learn so much from them over the years, and profit from their Friendship and support !

Yes, i do have a weird sense of Humor i know.

Fakes of the Ludendorff Badge aside, Fakes of Known originals marked RZM M1/4 aside, the makers mark RZM M1/4 can not theoretically exist., well not in this fashion any.

Karl Gutenkunst handed his RZM Number 4. in, before the M1/ marking system came into effect. (Of his own free will) He handed his number MA.4, for the production of small metal badges, back to the RZM on the 10th of January 1935. (documented) There is also no proof that i am aware of that shows us that the number M1/4 was re-issued.

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi Jo,

Even without a gouvernment, our silly country is still running business as usual. The king keeps sending and endless range of good sheperds out for diplomatic work

About those makers: Is their a good reason why fakers use the maker marks that not exist during the period like M1/129 and also M1/4? Maybe to avoid the possibility to compare fake versus original?

Regards, Wim