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**Don Scowen** · 12-15-2007, 06:49 PM

Well Martin, I'm surprised to see that your not jumping to defend as you put it "Tieste, the worlds leading expert" anymore.

For anyone still bothering to read this thread, yes the SS Schutz tinnie is in Tieste's books. And anyone around in this hobby & collecting tinnies or SS items for any length of time knows that this tinnie never existed pre 1945.

Now Martin's defence of the existence of the East Prussia badge pre 1945 is that it's in Tieste's book so it must be pre 1945. So, which is wrong with regard to the SS schutz tinnie, history or Tieste?

Cheers
Don

**RaymondG** · 12-16-2007, 04:03 AM

Hi

I cannot see this thread moving on at all unless someone produces some additional evidence about these badges.

Apart from Tieste's book, is there any other book that this badge is featured in? The book should preferably pre-date the timeframe that Don believes these first appeared on the market.

Martin mentioned a book in which it was featured and so it would be good to see a scan, or image of the relevant page and the publication date.

Can anyone actually confirm that the Hunting Association was actually formed in 1888 and celebrated 50 years in 1938? Sorry, I know nothing about these, but I did a quick look on the net and could not find anything. I really would like to this whole thread nailed either way and a definitive answer to come out of it.

You tend to find that fantasy badges tend to make some elementary mistakes and so it is worth checking up on.

Raymond

**Don Scowen** · 12-16-2007, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Raymond Griffiths View Post

.........Can anyone actually confirm that the Hunting Association was actually formed in 1888 and celebrated 50 years in 1938? Sorry, I know nothing about these, but I did a quick look on the net and could not find anything. I really would like to this whole thread nailed either way and a definitive answer to come out of it.

You tend to find that fantasy badges tend to make some elementary mistakes and so it is worth checking up on.

Raymond

Good point Raymond, I'll see if I can dig up anything.

The stupid thing is, although I doubt that Martin would believe me, is that I would really like these to be original period pieces. The early ones were really nicely made.

Cheers
Don

**RaymondG** · 12-16-2007, 07:39 AM

Hi

If the organisation existed, I would also expect to see a few membership cards/books out there in collections, or available for sale.

Would be very interesting to hear if there are any.

Raymond

**Garry M.** · 12-16-2007, 09:50 AM

I've been having an admittedly superficial (Google.de) look at this for the last 45 minutes and I can find nothing that even mentions such an organisation. The Rominten Heath was (and still is) the most famous hunting area in Ostpreussen. Goering himself shot 'Matador' (the then largest deer in the world) in the area in 1942 but still no mention of the 'Deutsche Jägerschaft'. The area was certainly in use during the period 1888-1938 but as I said, I can't find a single, even fleeting, mention of the 'Deutsche Jägerschaft Ostpreussen'. If this was indeed an actual, real organisation it is doing a very good job of hiding itself. Funnily enough, the only references to the Jägerschaft that I can find are those related to this badge....

I'll keep looking but I would have thought that at least one reference would have turned up by now.

**emilitaria_usmc** · 12-16-2007, 10:57 AM

Here is something that maybe is related to your discussion:

German Research Institute for Hand Fireing Weapons
45 Year Anniversary Table Honor Medal
1888 - 1933 Jubilee Shooting Competition

obv.jpg

1888 was also a big year for kings in Prussia.

**RaymondG** · 12-16-2007, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Schmusi View Post

I've been having an admittedly superficial (Google.de) look at this for the last 45 minutes and I can find nothing that even mentions such an organisation. The Rominten Heath was (and still is) the most famous hunting area in Ostpreussen. Goering himself shot 'Matador' (the then largest deer in the world) in the area in 1942 but still no mention of the 'Deutsche Jägerschaft'. The area was certainly in use during the period 1888-1938 but as I said, I can't find a single, even fleeting, mention of the 'Deutsche Jägerschaft Ostpreussen'. If this was indeed an actual, real organisation it is doing a very good job of hiding itself. Funnily enough, the only references to the Jägerschaft that I can find are those related to this badge....

I'll keep looking but I would have thought that at least one reference would have turned up by now.

I, too, had a look around this morning and only found links to the badges in question and little else that is worthy of mention.

Certainly nothing to hint at the existence of this organisation

Raymond

**Duzig** · 12-16-2007, 11:12 AM

Hello,
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see any connection between the medallion shown for the 1888-1933 shooting competition and the East prussian jagerschaft organization being discussed
Duzig

**Don Scowen** · 12-16-2007, 11:33 AM

Bill,

The Non portable that's shown above is the larger award that went with the lapel version that James posted earlier (post 39). That is that actual badge that the East Prussian was based on, so in a kind of odd way, there is a connection.

Cheers
Don

**emilitaria_usmc** · 12-16-2007, 11:53 AM

Martin
It is a waste of time and energy arguing with Don Scowen or anyone else over who is right or wrong re the Deutsche Jägerschaft Ostpreussen organization or its tinnie. You both need to agree on new "rules of engagement."

Martin, I would just stop claiming this or that tinnie is an original TR item. Instead I would say that all the tinnies in your coming book are presumed original unless hard evidence proves otherwise or anecdotal testimony makes the item quesionable. Then announce that you will mark the item with an asterik and let Don Scowen or anyone else write the footnote and claim credit.

Don has what ... over 40 years experience collecting these items so his opinion carries much weight as does yours. Having this approach will turn Don and many others into willing collaborators on your book. As new tinnies come to your attention you can publish a new updated edition. This way, everyone wins - especially you.

Incidently I have really enjoyed reading your English humor insults at each other over these many pages! You both are refined and proper English versions of our Jewish American Don Rickles!

**Martin Harding** · 12-16-2007, 01:08 PM

Dj50

Duzig,, I think perhaps what Dan was pointing out with the pictures of the Honor Medal was to relate the fact that it has always been common practice in Germany & Austria for Badges, Medals & awards to be manufactured for Jubilee’s and as such it is significant to the debate
Dan, thank you for taking the time to defuse what is perhaps for the moment becoming just a heated debate with neither sufficient or concret substantial evidence to confirm that the DJ50 was actually a fantasy piece. And equally I have not yet found sufficient proof to confirm it’s existence as a period piece. The time factor has restricted me from doing this, however as soon as I find find documented evidence I will post it on the forum.
Ermmmh Dan, I see the insults but where was the humour ?

**emilitaria_usmc** · 12-16-2007, 01:23 PM

It got me laughing therefore to me it was humorous!
For the receiving parties I'm sure it wasn't.

**Martin Harding** · 12-16-2007, 01:28 PM

Rumble In The Jungle

Dan, my hair was actually Jet Black before I started this paricular thread, now I have a few grey ones appearing If each Tinnie I have covered took this much out of me I would be six feet under by now, since there are over seven thosand plus tinnies to cover

I feel like Ali after the Frazier/Foreman fights

**Duzig** · 12-16-2007, 02:59 PM

Hello
Don thanks for explaining the connection between the non portable award shown and the pic in post 39 by James & their relation to the badge being discussed. Again I thank you for your knowledgable posts and information.
Bill

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