Braunschweig SA Badge

[Gregorio Torres]

Roman, I don´t pretend to open newly the discussion about this badge again. As I said in a previous post, the first badge is mine (Eduardo was so kind to post the pics for me). I have it here in my hand now and you can be sure of this: it´s exactly the same than the Chris´ one. The main part of the differences that you indicate in the pictures (i.e. the head of the eagle) are not detected when you compare directly my original with Chris´ pics, though I still haven´t cleaned out my piece to preserve his nice patina.
I´m sorry but I haven´t better pictures of my badge to send you.
Any case you can think what you want, of course, but be sure: Chris´s and my badge are the same, with very slight diferences for the die.
Best regards.
Gregorio

[DZR]

DZR i don't know about your badge. Strange badge Personally I would not buy such badge.

What about letter "T" in TREFFEN? And "17" without "."

You have made some good points. I would, however, compare my badge to Adrian's which also lacks the "." after "17" and is marked RZM & Ges Gesch. Since these badges were manufactured in both hollow & solid versions during the period before and after the establishment of the RZM, there are undoubtedly MANY authentic variations.

The ground dug badge does have an incredidible provenance. Excellent "in-situ" photograph Pitomnik!

[Chris Lee]

SA Badge

Does anyone have any examples of a first pattern they can post. Both front and back views?

[Roman (Russia)]

DZR, there are some special moments about 2nd pattern solid badges, especially for maker M1/35! For example (for all 2nd pattern badges):
1) At 2nd pattern massive badges letter "G" in " Braunschweig" has not horizontal line! Hollow version's "G" may be with or without.
2) "17" hasn't "." Hollow versions, IMO, must be always with "."

Besides flattened wreath (with swastika) at left side - is typically for M1/35.

Chris, ..oh.. there are so little original 1st pattern badges in a world...

[DZR]

Roman: Mine is marked RZM 63 (just left of the "A" on the reverse), is there anything notable about this maker?

[Roman (Russia)]

DZR, sorry i know nothing about SA Braunschweig badges with such maker.

[deadmaximgunner]

Sa Treffen Badge, Good Or Bad?

Hello everyone, i have just bought a SA Treffen badge from the "collector's guild"
But now i have seen the fakes on here, i feel like maybe i have mad a mistake!!! can anyone please log on and see if it's right or wrong! pleeease!!!

[Gregorio Torres]

Firt of all you have to know that there are not a common criteria about several of these "fakes" as you can see in the first posts of this thread.
There are a lot of "expert" who had a lot of mistakes about it and people who read their oppinions follow the chain of fatal errors.
Don´t let go a badge as fake if you are not completely sure.
Regards
Gregorio.

[Roman (Russia)]

deadmaximgunner,
can you post some pics or give us www-link.

[sjl]

I know nothing about these badges but actually the thread could be applied to any of thousands of TR items. I would contend that no-one is going to be able to convince anyone else that their badge is the good one. What interests me is that the significance of the ground-dug badge seems to have been ignored. Assuming that it is indeed ground-dug then this IMHO is the only badge with anything approaching provenance. This is the constant required to make the fake/real equation work. Without this all comments, claims and counter-claims are just opinions. Notwithstanding the above this is an enjoyable thread and discussion is always good

Anyone wondered why a political badge like the 1931 Braunschweig badge would be at Stalingrad? These NSDAP honour badges were generally prohibited for wear on military uniforms, even in the rare cases when a military type had one from a previous career in the SA. Not a lot of SA Truppen at Stalingrad - even fewer at a Luftwaffe mess, if the cutlery is any indication of what was there at the time.

Not impossible, I guess, but Stalingrad was hardly the cloakroom at the Nuremberg rallies where you'd expect the golden pheasants to gather. It's like "vet pick ups" of an SS dagger from the beach at Normandy - what the heck was it doing there when it should be in a dresser drawer in Berlin?

One other thing - if it was found in what looks like fireplace ash shown in the photo, ash is incredibly corrosive, and I see no damage to the finish at all.

[XEN]

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[sjl]

The ash incidentally looks to me like soil with a high sand content. I'd also like to add that I have asked for, and taken, advice from a couple of the 'big names'. What I disagree with are the times where 'big name' status is abused. I wanted to add that as, on reflection, it may seem as if I have a general 'downer' on senior collectors. That isn't the case.

Hi Xen,

I assume it is ash because of the fineness, smudges and the black debris looks like charcoal or burnt sticks.

Big names are fine, but they have to put their pants on the same way as the rest of us. Ultimately, it's the piece and the historical record that has to do the convincing, although I appreciate the benefit of others' experience as well.

[ErichS]

Am i correct in thinking that the solid RZM version has less detail than the stamped type?

[Roman (Russia)]

Am i correct in thinking that the solid RZM version has less detail than the stamped type?

Yes you're correct.

[Gregorio Torres]

Originally Posted by ErichS
Am i correct in thinking that the solid RZM version has less detail than the stamped type?

Not necessarily so, in my oppinion. It depends of condition. This better detailed appearence in stamped versions is related with the bright finishing, usual in the no-zink badges. Anycase you can take a lot of different pics and compare. You******180;ll find some of the solid version badges very well detailed too.

Regarding to Xen******180;s oppinion I******180;m with him when saying that we all have too overestimate the "big names" oppinions. I respect all of them but I have to say that a lot of time I found big mistakes in their veredicts. You have only to see their reference books to find a lot of this mistakes.

About the Brawnsweig badge found in the ground in Stalingrado, IMHO his condition is very strange. This kind of hardware (tin plate) is easily rusted, and this piece don******180;t show the tipical appearance for a 60 years buried tin. Just a comment.

Regards from Spain.