SA Marine badge

[Lloyds]

Hi can anyone tell if this is ok and is it SA marine i got it today with a group of KM badges but from a collector not a vet i havent had one before and isnt my thing

[Gary Symonds]

Original.

[Lloyds]

thanks Gary

[Erich B.]

IMO hard to say with any certainty. Bullion wreaths with no center device are not uncommon, and, of course, cap eagles are easily found.
Erich

[GAMS1]

The 2 badges are original but seems not to be together for a very long time ...
Nick

[wilhelm Saris]

Photos are known where the early eagle shines from the navy-like wreath, see for example pages 493 and 494 in volume 3 from "Headgear of Hitler's Germany".
Normally with this wreath the SA cockade should be postioned and above that the larger SA eagle.

Maybe the two are put together after the war. This is difficult to prove.

[Lloyds]

IMO hard to say with any certainty. Bullion wreaths with no center device are not uncommon, and, of course, cap eagles are easily found.
Erich

but this wreath isnt the standard navy wreath

[Lloyds]

Photos are known where the early eagle shines from the navy-like wreath, see for example pages 493 and 494 in volume 3 from "Headgear of Hitler's Germany".
Normally with this wreath the SA cockade should be postioned and above that the larger SA eagle.

Maybe the two are put together after the war. This is difficult to prove.

showed it to a fellow collector last night who looked it up and same badge is on page 275 277 279 280 Cloth insignia of the NSDAP and SA no cockade just eagle on a wreath

[Military]

I do have some suspicions on the eagle. Looks like a modern repro eagle but can't tell unless there are closeups and pics of the back.

Mil

[Gary Symonds]

original.

I have to amend my original opinion. The more I look at the eagle, the more it looks either modern, or if original, added to the bullion wreath.

Here is my SA Marine example, for whatever it is worth.

[wilhelm Saris]

showed it to a fellow collector last night who looked it up and same badge is on page 275 277 279 280 Cloth insignia of the NSDAP and SA no cockade just eagle on a wreath

with the official wreath for naval SA (the lower version), as introduced in about 1933/1934, there never was a cockade added. First the eagle fitted within the wreath (as shown by mr. Symonds) and with a later date the eagle was on top, the wreath with swastika resting in the open space.

[Erich B.]

The RZM pages mention the bullion wreath but there are no close up photo nor specific details about its appearance that I can find. There are photos in modern reference books, like Wim's excellent headgear reference, but it's usually impossible to see the actual bullion detail from a period photo of a cap being worn. The wreaths on the pictured caps from collections may or may not be original Marine SA, since there is no standard with which to compare. I have only one indirect vet purchased Marine SA cap and it's got a metal wreath rather than the officers' bullion type.
Erich